The Next Epic Event: Easter

[GrimmJow]

Maybe a new/third capacity with a new system to play.
I think the mastery will not change. Rank 12 is rank 12 for a class.

What do you think about how we can upgrade ? old system with items ?

[JJAtelier]

@m-ich I’d argue the Guardian is in just as a worst state.

I don’t think this “ELITE” version of the Knight will propel any kind of viability in Arena. The nature of its kit and stat numbers is very vanilla especially when compared to the beast of Paladin.

[Pointless]

So this is the plan now for Epic? 30 “new” classes that will be the same old with a fresh coat of paint? This is supposed to satisfy us for the next 2-3 years (based on the somewhat generous assumption that we’re going to see 1 upgrade a month)? Can’t say I am overly impressed…

[Green Whacker]

Now I’m going to be in this event at FULL steam. Glad I’m not going out of town during that weekend :-)

[Suzy]

I only started playing Epic about 6 months ago and still have to get Bard, Thunderbird and illusionist. Do I still need to get them or just focus on getting the new classes when come?

[Jim151]

I like Bard. Thunderbird and Illusionist are useless.

[GrauGeist]

@roviohuzz, @roviobeni: Presuming that the “Elite Knight” is Arena-playable (because, otherwise, why bother), he’s going to need to be balanced comparably to Sea Dog / Samurai, or everybody is kinda wasting their time.

Play-wise, he’s closer to Samurai. Equipped with Banner Breaker (his only good kit), Samurai does roughly 2,770 (3x 500 base + 3x 23% 750 crit + 3x 25% 1,000 set) damage per turn, with a defensive shield of 50% (40% others). Samurai does very good damage, and has a very effective 1-turn defense against AOE / multi-attacks.

Assume Elite Knight is the defensive counterpart, using Steel Wall. Currently, Knight does 940 (700 base + 23% 1,050) damage and shields 1 bird by -55% for 2 turns with another -10% from the set. The damage output is unplayable, basically half what a minimally competitive bird does; Samurai is basically 3x better. Defensively, 55% for 2 turns isn’t compelling when Samurai does 50% for the critical turn *and* shields all other birds. It’s not worth extra -5% damage reduction when everything else gets hit.

To be competitive, Elite Knight needs to be doing at least 85% of the damage of Samurai: 2,354 (1,750 base + 23% 2,625 crit). For the defense, it’ll need to be at least -60% for the target, and -25% for each other bird. Stacked with Steel Wall, the target takes even less damage, and the others get some useful reduction.

If it’s just a Ronin +10% bump, that really won’t address the issues with Knight.

[datguygamer]

@suzyq Focus on the new ones as you can sort of get them for free but also grind Snoutlings for the old ones. If you miss getting the new ones, they are only available later for Lucky Coins, so utilize your chance when it comes.

[GrauGeist]

@pointless – if they address the first 5 classes, along with the next 5 weakest classes (e.g. Guardian), bringing them up to Venomous / Power Team levels, that will be fine. That’ll have more than half of the classes Arena-playable, which will open up gameplay possibilities.

But these updated classes need to be comparable to the BEST Arena classes today. They need to be compelling. If it’s a half step, it’s not going to help.

[datguygamer]

Now here’s the thing, the description says “Class upgrades make your favorite classes even stronger”. This really means more classes will get their upgrades after this.

By the way, if anyone misses this event, will they be able to upgrade the class afterwards from the shop? What do you think?

[Suzy]

Thanks @datguygamer. I’ll concentrate on the birds I’ve got then and forget the ones I don’t have.

[Pointless]

@graugeist I’m not sure I share your optimism. Seems to me that this whole Elite class is a band aid attempt to temper any ill feeling towards any real new content. As such, I can only believe that the Elite Knight will simply be a Ronin-like upgrade to the existing class (what this will do if one has Ronin is another question…anything at all?). I am hoping I will be proven wrong.
Also, I tend to think with Knight being the first class chosen, Rovio will follow their predictable linear path, as with all other “new” classes for the birds, and offer Mage next, then Cleric etc before cycling back to start over again with Guardian.

[GrauGeist]

@pointless – Ronin was a luck-driven freebie, so the bump was small. If you don’t get it in the event, an Elite Class is going to cost the same 275 LCs as Sea Dog / Paladin / Witch / TH / Frost, so it should perform at least comparably to those top-end classes.

I am sure Rovio will “fix” Mage and Cleric, etc. to address Guardian, etc. And that is perfectly fine. Those classes were all “free” / snouts, and they are nearly all terrible compared to the classes that you pay 275 LCs for.

I think this is great, assuming that Rovio makes them worth the 275 LCs.

[datguygamer]

@graugeist @pointless Now speaking of Mage, I have Archmage. It will be interesting to see if I get Elite Archmage (same for those who have Ronin, Moon Priestess and Corsair) when the time comes.

[Pointless]

How do you know Elite classes will cost 275 LCs if not obtained during the event? Did I miss mention of this somewhere or are you deducing this based on the other Campaign Events for the New Classes?
I am also not sure how Rovio can “fix” the existing classes to make them all comparable. There are, and always will be in games like this, clearly better ones (part due to personal taste/playing style, but mostly to do with Class Abilities). If you are talking making them “more equal” in terms of Arena viability, then I think I finally hear the death knell for Epic, as this will prove with absolute certainty that there is nothing else left.

[GrauGeist]

I’m guessing they will cost 275, because that’s what every other event Class costs.

They can’t do a “perfect” job of balancing fixes, because everybody plays differently; however, they definitely can get things a LOT closer than where they are today, and that’s what I’m asking for.

I don’t see how making the classes better balanced for Arena kills Epic any more than it already is dying. Epic is clearly in End Game. Widening the Arena gives players like us more to do.

[Pointless]

I am not sure the Elites will be 275 LCs, as they are not really a “new” class, but who knows? They had better be amazing if so, and really, would anyone actually spend that on Knight (or most classes for that matter)?
I am one who has always held out the faintest of hopes for some truly new PvE content (I would even settle for some more Caves at this point, but that’s probably mean a Level increase which will anger many after the introduction of Shards). So if these Elites are tailored more towards PvP, then it will extinguish any such hope. It would also confirm that Rovio is driving the game solely towards Arena as they are a business, and therefore not only would kill the game, but also any real anticipation for Epic 2. After all, why would they concentrate on introducing any new “free” content if people are still willing to P2W in such a limited, meaningless sub-game such as Arena?

[GrauGeist]

An Elite Knight that is Arena-worthy is effectively a “new” class compared to the basic Knight or Ronin.

And we’re getting these PvE events every X weeks, so I don’t know why that doesn’t scratch your itch.

Why would anyone want to start over with Epic 2? I’ve sunk hours into Epic, and if Rovio tells us that we need to start at zero, I’d simply quit. That would kill the game far faster than Arena.

[Pointless]

If the Elite Knight is going to be so different, why wouldn’t they simply introduce it as an entirely new class? I think we are going to be disappointed in the minor bump to the existing Knight that is going to be passed off as a shiny bauble.
That being said, I am always looking forward to the Campaign Events, so far (with an exception or two…ahem Christmas 2014), these have been well crafted diversions. I have not, however, been impressed with the repetitiveness of battles needed to farm the necessary items for the reward Class (I think most of us have had enough of such grinding through Mastery and Arena medal farming). This needs to be addressed by either adding more stages that reward a needed ingredient or more randomness in the stages themselves.
And let me understand, you would take a dressed up version of Arena with Elite Classes over an entirely new sequel to Epic?

[GrauGeist]

Who cares? It’s just a label, like the “Epic 2” game that you’re so fond of. Maybe if Rovio labeled it “Knight 2”, you’d be happier? And if they called it “Elite Epic”, you’d be more upset? Either way, it’s a Red class that becomes playable. The only difference is that you lose the option to play the junk “Knight” that you don’t play anyways.

The Class Events have gotten much better, much more doable. It *is* grinding, but it has a clock. It’s not a big deal.

I would take Arena with 15-20 playable Classes and a half-dozen playable Banners over a Epic 2, hands down. I quit in an instant if Rovio told me to start over in “Epic 2”.

[Pointless]

Why are we getting so caught up in labels? The fact is we don’t know what Elite Knight is going to be, and I for one am simply going by instinct and experience with Rovio to predict that this class will be nothing more than a slightly improved Knight. So to extrapolate from your reasoning, slightly improving an unplayable class still results in an unplayable class. I really do hope I am wrong, but I am also unsure where you get your conviction from that this Elite will be anything more than I describe.
I do enjoy the Class Events, just a minor gripe that we have to follow the same old routine when there are simple ways to add variety. Do you remember the Puzzle & Dragons Event? Choosing birds to enter a Hard Battle was nerve wracking as you didn’t know which final dragon you were going to face, and they all had different strengths and weaknesses. Imagine this same thing being applied to the new Events…who do you bring to battle if you might face a Shogun or Porky?
Arena seems to have been started almost as an afterthought but has evolved into an entity by itself and almost a separate stand-alone game and should almost be treated as such. Think of my “love” of this fictitious Epic 2 as an analogy for the game as it was, where PvE mattered.

[GrauGeist]

As above, I proposed and requested an “Elite Knight” that was actually “Elite”, and therefore playable. If it is not Arena playable, why bother?

I remember Puzzle Dragons, and it sucked. Right now, I have a Power Team, so I don’t care what I’m fighting against – they’ll win. If they don’t then Rovio has tweaked the curve so hard, the players will all be up in arms.

You’re at the end of the game, and nothing stops you from ignoring Arena and constantly re-playing Cave 17, as many replay SRC and others focus on Arena. That’s what happens. Birds have conquered the island. Simple as that.

[Ryogo Kusama]

Yeah, well, obviously I’m speaking for myself when I say this but I think it’s time to stop and move on… if this “elite” stuff turns out the way I think it will, then it’s really time to quit.
PvE is done, Arena is a nobrainer and everything new you can get is just a reason to autoplay SRC until you’re over again.

[GrauGeist]

Well, yeah. If Elite Knight is weak (i.e. obviously inferior to Samurai), then the game is well and truly done.

[Pointless]

That’s the thing. Rovio seems about to give us minor tweaks to existing classes and passing them off as “new”…fresh coat of paint on a Pinto. Problem is, there are enough people who will exploit these (who wouldn’t want a better Wizard or Paladin) that many will have to keep up to be competitive in higher Arena Leagues, and Rovio is obviously counting the cash by counting on this. End game indeed…this Event might be very telling.