About the Angry Birds 2 Arena

[heybert17]

Why do I continue to play the Arena when every day I witness something that should not even be possible if the game was fair?

[Rovio_Hank]

Hey flingers!

Hopefully I’ll have time to give some further insight to you before the weekend. There’s a lot of different topics to discuss and I’m doing this parallel to my ordinary work schedule so I can’t answer everything. As a game designer, I’ll try to give you an idea of how I’m reasoning.

@kedik22
With the recent additions to the Arena with win streak and new tournament rewards, we hope to improve the Arena experience other than just being a weekly grind. With the win streak rewards and feeling of accomplishment, the difficulty is also raised. This allows us to have great rewards, while also giving a satisfactory feel when doing well. That being said, we are investigating how the matchmaking works at the moment. Our intent is never to match you against opponents several levels higher. I’m personally looking into this next week.

@kelshe
Thank you for sharing! Interesting observations made that I will bring up with our programmers. The matchmaking service we’re using is not made by us internally, so we don’t have a person with perfect insight to how every step works. If it’s a lot of repeating players, we need to look closer into how opponents are picked.

@dwhite40704
The player type you are talking about exists, especially with such a big user base we have in AB2. These players are often mistaken for being cheaters, when in fact they just want to catch up to players who’ve played for several months. Their score is calculated the exact same way as anyone else.

@partshade
When matching you against your opponent, score is not taken into consideration. The scores shown are from real playthroughs and not something we would make up.

Something I’ve seen mentioned here and there is frustration over physics in the game. While we wish everything would be granular in the way it works, that’s not the case for any Angry Birds game. There is a lot of randomness and the magic that goes on within the physics engine which is impossible to predict. We are however trying to fix things we do control. One fix that will go live next update is Terence collision with static balloons, which currently doesn’t work as expected.

@kedik22
The sole reason for me being here is to improve the game for our players. Your feedback is greatly appreciated and I’m doing my best at finding and fixing things that doesn’t work as intended. You have to understand that most, if not all, issues mentioned here are not made by design. We want you to have a great time playing Angry Birds 2, it would make no sense for us to add impossible opponents or tamper with the physics.

While this forum is a room for ventilating frustration, discussing issues or requesting answers, it’s also a great place for me to find feedback. I’m bringing these issues to light with our team and hope to make the best experience for you while being transparent. I’m super grateful for detailed and constructive feedback that makes it possible for me to ask the right questions to people working with the discussed feature.

I hope that covers some questions. Have a great weekend!
/Hank

[Aeshna]

And still no explanation regrading level 7 players with all level 10 bird cards.

I’ll ask again, is that even possible?

Nice to Rovio admit that they thought the winning streak in the areana was too easy so they tweaked the game. Something did change last week.

[Dwhite]

I think Hammering Hank is saying that people routinely are at star rank 7 and decide to spend $1,000 to level their birds up. Feel free to read where I am tagged in his comment. Unbelievable bunch of Bologna.

[Aeshna]

@dwhite40704 – thanks for that, I missed it.

Seems reasonable to me then, 1,000’s of players spending thousands of £,$,€,¥ to catch up. Hahahahahahaha ahhhh hahahahaha.

Now let’s think about this…. You can’t buy feathers, so you’d have to pay to play in the arena and go on long running streaks. Something that’s only been available three weeks. Before that feathers were harder to come by.

I would state mathematically it is impossible to win all those games in the arena to accumulate all those feathers to have your birds all at level 10 while STILL maintaining a low star level rating. Impossible. And I’m mistaking them for cheating, lol. You are insulting my intelligence to suggest otherwise.

Still if a Rovio employee says it’s the case then it must be so. Hahahahaha.

Now ask yourselves why Rovio employees frequent this forum.

They don’t have there own forum which is actually better for the players as the majority of comments on here would not be allowed on an official board, they’d be moderated out before published. Zynga community boards and EA for example.

Rovio has a presence here, to help us may be one argument, and yes some times they do but many pleas for help get ignored, other questions are answered because it suits Rovio. Notice how the ‘why am I being bumped and jumped around from one league to another?’ is unanswered still.

Feedback is no doubt import to Rovio, we on here are the vocal minority. We write on here because we care about the game, not because we are paid to be part of it.

And while I’m not denying Bankler and Hank seem like decent people, I don’t know them, I can’t pass judgement, but I can say they work for Rovio and the company comes first. Proof of this was feather farming on level 9 and 13. I didn’t stop it. Who did? How did Rovio find out about it? And another example is quiting arena matches to find a fairer opponent.
These worked to our advantage not Rovio’s.

And while I’m on, I believe another Rovio employee who used to post on here was told to stop. Strange how he appeared, tried to help, then disappeared again. Not part of the official company face, not acceptable to be on the forum. Don’t do it. I might be wrong, might be right!

We are the unofficial play testers, and our experiences are sometimes used to help us, sometimes used against us but whatever, never be fooled into thinking that Rovio are our friends. We are customers, we are here to pay, their object is to make as much many as they can from us. Buyer beware.

I don’t mind paying to play and was a VIP subscriber with Mafia Wars (£19.99 per month) but as I’d spend to play anyway snd it was actually a cheaper option with the bonuses. Rovio do not offer anything like that, the Red offer turned out to be a lie, and was mis-sold. Players did not get the full package as advertised. It is cheaper on AB2 to buy 80 gems at a time (5x) than 400! in one go. Who does the maths at Rovio?

And while I’m ranting, the continual tweeking of the game is a disgrace, I’ve never known anything like it. Sometimes daily, certainly weekly, tweek, alter, mess it up, re-tweek. Proof we are the unofficial unpaid play testers, the bug where you have more points than an opponent but you loose. How has that crept into the game? Who does the maths at Rovio?

I’ve played video games since Atari Console 2600? That’ll give you oldies some idea that I’m in your club, then Acorn Electron, BBC B, Amiga 500, then first PC 486-DX33 with an amazingly large hard drive of 245mb, that’s MB not gb. I’ve played games years, on different formats.

I know when I’m been taken for an idiot, lied to and ripped-off.

More fool you Rovio.

If this post upsets some people, I don’t care, I don’t care to be lied to and exploited. I’m not bothered about being relegated this week, it’s quite ironic seeing as how I played my way up the leagues, trying hard.

I just don’t f****** care but I won’t meekly stop playing. I’ll keep sticking the verbal knife in.

[CaptSternn]

Yes, you can buy feathers, Aeshna. Not directly, but opening those 80 gem chests gives both feathers and spells as long as the birds are not maxed out. After that it just gives spells.

[Djangosmum]

@aeshna – good for you for saying what you (and a silent majority) think. Although I doubt I have been playing as long as you, birds mainly 6 still, I feel your passion and outrage that you can slog away long and hard to get where you are, only to be undermined by jokers with a low star rating but the highest ranked birds who incredibly have paid (!) their way to legitimately catch up with you!
And that was just one of many good points well made.

[Aeshna]

@captsternn – I stand corrected. I never buy chests, and of course I am aware that feathers are part of the winning items. It honestly slipped my mind in my red mist rant.

I don’t think feathers in chests are that common though and would love to know the ratio of spells to feathers. I would think, but again I am prepared to be corrected, that it would not cost thousands of pounds to get all birds to level 10 but tens of thousands. And even if you are ONLY spending a thousand pounds to play a game because you want to have the max. number of feathers available then you’d be better spending your money on a shrink, in my opinion, but hey, it’s your money. And it would seem to me hundreds of players are buying their way to max. feathers. Really, seriously?

So either: there are many rich players around, there is massive credit card fraud or there is a hack which allows players unlimited gems which they then use to buy feathers.

Me, I’m cynical, I’m going for the latter which still makes low level ranking players with level 10 birds cheats.

@djangosmum – thanks. I’m frustrated at the way Rovio tinker with the game, treat players as cash cows, mislead us (red purchase) ignore questions that are tricky, do nothing to stop players leaving due to Rovio’s continuing failures but most of all I’m frustrated that a brilliant game like AB2 is being killed by those that created it. Or maybe not created but those responsible for managing it.

[CaptSternn]

There is an exploit that basically equals unlimited gems, Aeshna. I explained it to Mr. Bankler a couple of weeks ago when I discovered it.

[heybert17]

I will back out if every battle with a cutesy bird name from now on. Real or not I have noticed that it is against them that the most havoc happens. If I face a player with a real name and picture, even if they outmatch me I am good enough to usually beat them. But if it is a cutesy name player, even they are evenly matched or I slightly outmatch them it is rare I win, and my birds do not react correctly.

I might be overthinking it but these are just my experiences. It happens way too often for there not to be something there.

[JezzaH99]

This really does my head in! The last FIVE times I’ve got to match 3 I have played opponents who have used ALL five spells.

What a fix. Rovio it’s pitiful and pathetic. What’s the point?

The last match, just now, has made me think what’s the point even more – I had beaten the person in points (quite clearly) – he must have been a bad player. I had 2.9m points and he had 2.7m.

And guess what – HE WON!

Rovio – please stop it and make it fair or I’m going.

[CaptSternn]

Almost 150 points in less than half an hour. Forget it, I am obviously not getting 1st place this week. I spent all day catching up and passing this person and was ahead by about 30 points an hour ago. 30 minutes ago I was behind but I thought it was only by six points. Gained more points. Turns out it was by 106 points. I have other, more enjoyable things to do than chase that kind of mess.

[heybert17]

Pigs surviving bombs exploding right on top of them, these pigs are amazing.

[cognitive]

Kevlar pigs :)

Today I wasted a few Arena tickets (I’m winning my Apathy league, I’m ahead by 130 points) so I played for giggles. Lost 5 in a row 1st streak to players I typically would have obliterated.

Another thing that makes me wonder… How is it that a player can pick up 600k-800k points out of a single bird in a single, relatively sparse, room? I’ve played against players that were quite a bit higher than me then in one bird they’re ahead by a million points.

Strange, but possible I suppose.

[kedik22]

@hank

Hi.
Thank you for getting back to us, it is greatly appreciated.

But I must respectfully let you know that you do NOT grasp nor understand the real issue at hand: SENTIMENT in Arena playing is at its lowest.
You are not making the experience any better, you are making it worse lately with every little tweak you implement.
Let me be blunt: It is not fun anymore, players are frustrated and feel cheated!!!
Just listen to what @aeshna just wrote.

And on the technical side…
Fact: Arena opponents SHOULD closely resemble your level of play, and are chosen RANDOMLY.
Therefore by design and logic, you CANNOT increase the level of difficulty!!!
Negatively affecting only ONE side of players.
Knowingly or not, you have to conclude that the game is RIGGED.

As evidence, following is what I faced today in the Arena.
My level is 65.
80% of my opponents had a much higher ranking than mine, plus a LOT of spells.
Three of them had the following ranking: 89, 93 and 98.

@hank, do you think that is reasonable close or fair?

And here is the important question: Do you beleive I had an enjoyable experience today?

[RedYoshi45]

Unfair star rank matching aside:
The spell issue could be fixed, or at least cooled down, very quickly… I too COULD play with 5 spells continuously – without cheating and without paying!!! – but I don’t do it because I believe it increases the difficulty of enemies I face, and I don’t wanna make it so difficult for other players to beat me (and I wanna keep a good reputation for cutesy bird name players up). Rovio likely knows about this spell issue since months and doesn’t fix it. Why?!?

[CaptSternn]

A person can learn a lot by playing this game almost continuously. The last three weeks have been a roller coaster ride for me, I have played a lot. But not like yesterday, yesterday was virtually non-stop until the evening, the bulk of that time trying to find decent opponents not using spells or maybe just using one spell. I am beginning to understand how the program works.

Maybe if I can get my head wrapped around it I could come up with some constructive ideas and suggestions rather than Rovio just hearing complaints most of the time. I also think I am starting to understand why I am not getting the extra bird with a video about half the time. But I am playing within the rules, except for being able to “buy” extra stuff. Have no idea about the real hacks.

[DJLarryt]

Here you go Rovio.

4 hours ago I was in the lead with 348 stars. Some creature named Apmah just came out of nowhere to take the lead. Not with 349 stars, not with 400 stars, but with 2345 stars.

How much more do you need to see? He’s got a 28 star ranking and all his flock at level 10 already.

This is hardly a ‘game’ if certain players can gain an advantage to hack their way to cheat wins.

View post on imgur.com

View post on imgur.com

[Dwhite]

I’m sure he bought those birds. Rovio said that’s what most do. ?

[Kt]

@hank @bankler

I will add my voice to those already expressing their frustration and disappointment in the “new” Arena format and other quite noticeable changes since the May update/downlaod.

The first week after the May update/download I was often matched in the Arena with players of low rank and level 9 birds, 5 spells. But after a few days my Arena games became more fair and I won 3 seven card streaks … but with the 7th game always being one with level 9 birds, 5 spells. To win the 7 game Streak I had to bring in 5 spells and perhaps use gems for extra cards to win those final matches. Then in the 2nd week after the May update/download, the Arena game changed again and from that week on I have had the same experience each day I play. The first game is matched, perhaps slightly in my favor, with players ranked somewhat lower and some birds at a lower level, some the same, one perhaps higher, no spells. The second game is evenly matched in rank, bird level, no spells. The third game is with a player who has all of the new, highest level of birds, first 9, now 10, is usually ranked below 21 (sometimes ranked much higher than my 50) and brings in 5 spells.

I won’t play those games. At bird level 8 my chance of winning is low, even with bringing 5 spells and then gems may have to be spent at the end to secure the win and justify my use of spells. So that 3rd game is just to make me use spells and spend more gems for the “satisfaction” of winning and continuing toward the 7 card Streak final game. That’s not fun and I’m not playing.

I use to love the Arena. I have won quite a few tournaments, but now only one Tourney win since the May update/download.

I have also found repeatedly that the touch activation birds: Red, Chuck, Blues, Silver and especially Matilda do not activate when I fire them in the Arena!!!! Of course this adversely affects my play and score as these birds are then a loss and often just bounce off an object instead of destroying it. This rarely happens in the Trail game!!! Far less often it has happened in the Daily Challenge.

I enjoy the social aspect of the game and play the DC more often now that gifts are offered there. I appreciate that more gifts are available in the DC. Sending gifts to my friends makes my game play more fun. But I have noticed that it is much harder to win the DC. I used to win the DC once or twice a week before. Now I can’t win without spending gems, and I feel manipulated. I have noticed in the Boss cave, when I can reach that panel, that my birds don’t behave as they should and don’t do the damage they normally do. They seem weaker, less effective, not quite on course. So, of course, I need more birds to win and would have to use gems for more birds to finally defeat the Boss.

Why do you think this is not noticed? Why do you think I am having more fun? Or any fun? The game used to be really fun. The DC seems unattainable without spells and gems. The Arena feels like a grind.

Now I am only playing the Arena to satisfy the Daily Quest requirements. I’m near the bottom of my tournament group, facing deportation from the Diamond League each week. What used to feel like fun just feels like pressure. The only solution seems to be spend more gems: here, there, everywhere. And I am sure that is the intent of the changes in the game. But when you have played the game for some time, all the new machinations wear thin.

I am concluding that the expectation that the movie release would bring many new players into the game is being met. These new players have no idea what the game used to be like having nothing with which to compare. They will take in stride the need to purchase gems to play, as they will need to do so from early on in the game and will not question it for some time, if at all. Those who won’t pay to play will just leave. And losing players of long standing has become far less important to Rovio than it once was. It’s all about the numbers.

[kedik22]

@captsternn

Hey, Captain!
Many of us would love to hear about your research/findings.
But most of all please share your conclusions and sentiment.
Kind regards.

[CaptSternn]

Right now I can’t even access the arena, Kedik.

As somebody else pointed out before, we are not playing against live people, we are playing against previous games and players and their scores. There are a limited number of stored games and players, so it would be possible to use that info. But it doesn’t work when tr …

What the heck? Been trying to claim my 150 gems for 45 minutes now but kept saying couldn’t connect. The suddenly it connects and I get 300 gems.

Anyway, Rovio stores games from certain players and you play against those stored games, not live opponents. But it doesn’t work with the streak because the stored games and players will be thrown against us to prevent a winning streak most of the time, or maybe just randomly. Haven’t figured that out yet. Sometimes if I start with players with no spells that is what I get through the streak, but if I accept a player with even one spell I get more players with more spells. Good Lord forbid I use any because then the flood gates open up.

Still trying to get my head around it and come up with constructive ideas. My most constructive idea is to ban spells from the arena, but that would mean Rovio would not get the money from people buying spells to win the streak. And that makes no sense. But there must be a way to deal with hacks and cheaters.

Then again, I was in 2nd place against a hack and wound up getting 300 gems. They are up to something at Rovio and it is not all about supporting hacks. Hope next update shows more improvement. I still have the attitude of my topic of Get a Grip, though I do see and share much of the frustration and aggravation. I guess I just see more of the integrity of people at Rovio, Mr. Bankler and Mr. Hank. Sure, they want the company to profit and keep their jobs, but that also means people enjoying and playing the games.

[hamvestor]

@captsternn, how do you decline to accept an opponent with spells? There’s probably some obvious answer to this question, but I haven’t figured out yet to make that happen.

[reddie]

Like many others, I’m not satisfied with the way arena treats me. Rovio, if you’re gonna do opponents in increasing difficulty, you could’ve saved the last opponent to have a star/bird level about the same as me. I do not want to see cheaters that I have virtually have little to no chance of beating.

And this week, I was close to being demoted from Diamond League in the past couple days, but thankfully I ended up 5th with about 250 stars.

[kedik22]

@captsternn
Thanks for your insight.
But my logic still tells me the Arena is rigged.
You cannot increase difficulty in a random scenario.
And hear what happened to me at the end of the tournament…

@hank
Your handling of cheaters still leaves a lot to be desired.
Just before the tournament ended I was in tenth place with a little under 400 stars.
At least two players were relegated to the bottom with 1 star, clearly cheaters.
I came in fourth.
That means that other six players were discovered as cheaters, and therefore disqualified.
So in a field of 15, 8 were cheaters, that is more than 50%!!!

The bad thing is that I gave up trying to achieve a medal this week, having more than four or five players ahead with scores in the thousands.

And today, I have earned a whopping amount of 10 stars in total, having met opponents all of them with spells and/or higher ranking.

So I ask you again @hank, do you think I had an enjoyable day playing the Arena?

Kind regards.