About the Angry Birds 2 Arena

[hooksfan]

@bankler the Arena battles is where most of your complaints with Angry Birds 2 is. Many players aren’t doing the arena battles because of issues within that part of the game. I guess Rovio thinks that this was a smart idea because Rovio sees it as a way to make more money. Why not concentrate on what works and make it better.

In regards to the wrong bird why do I predominately draw the blues against a structure (extra card). I get that well over 70% of the time. I usually quit the battle at that point.

[Sutekh137]

@bankler

You wrote: “It takes a random card from the cards you have used and gives it back. Excluding spells in the arena.”

This is not true. I have gotten a spell card as the extra card as recently as yesterday. This is still a bug that needs addressing, though I am pretty sure you already mentioned this being on the list of things to fix for the next update (which should be soon, no? How many weeks has it been?)

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Rovio_Bankler]

@sutekh137 Ok, true. Does not change the fact that the card is random. But yes, the exclusion of spell cards as reward for video is not in yet. You are certainly right about that.

[Gary S McD]

@bankler
1. We all know that the ability to fill a destructo meter is reduced in the later levels. For the last bird to have the ability to completely fill the destructo meter is more than a ‘bug’, for them to fill three destructo meters in a row is ridiculous. I am still calling foul on this as a means to force a player to watch another advertisement by giving the other player enough birds to change the outcome on the very last move

2. I am speaking very specifically about the bird that is received for watching a video after being behind at the end of the match (particularly following the scenario above). The bird received is unusually weak, and I have even seen a group of blues bounce off of a glass panel (or a yellow fail to break a wood block, etc…) at this point in the game

Really, I get it. Nobody is making games for free, we are paying with our eyeballs, but to intentionally force more advertisement views in this manner is infuriating. I have to have a million point lead late in the game to end up with a 6 star game after the barrage of magically appearing birds. Almost as if I am being pushed to purchase coins to remain competitive…

Many mobile games are facing waves of rage-quits and angering your players does nothing to keep them playing.

[Sutekh137]

@garysmcdermott

Gary,

I completely agree with you about item 1. Something is truly fishy with those last birds the opponent pulls out. However, it might just be bad card timing in the display of it. Hard to say.

As for item 2:

I think we have to keep in mind the human penchant for selective memory here. Unless you are going to keep stats, we all remember when we get worthless Blues for that last bird. And we’ll forget when we get a suitable bird because we feel like that is just how it should work — things should always go our own way. But just now I got Bomb as my last bird. We simply tend to remember what we perceive as injustice. I do not think the random bird at the end is in any way contrived to be ineffectual (on average), and I have never seen what you are talking about in regards to birds suddenly bouncing off everything. In fact, a couple times I got Chuck against non-wood structures and was still able to break through enough glass and stone (which he shouldn’t really be very good against) to topple a structure and win the battle.

The best way to trend something is to really trend it. Start writing down every bird you get as extra, as well as the outcome of it. I lose a lot even with the extra bird, but I win, too. If I keep an open, statistical mind about it, I’d say it is about 50/50 as to whether or not I get a “useful” bird with a chance at scoring enough points to pull out the win. What is usually of far greater importance is to clear the level before so that the extra bird stands a shot at doing a lot of damage. I have had lots of scenarios where one stupid tiny pig holds on in the last level, so of course the extra bird cannot do much except head pop him. So I lose.

There’s a great deal to be miffed about in regards to Arena play, but I trust @bankler when he says Rovio isn’t gaming the system for that last bird. At some point and on some of these issues we need to give Rovio the benefit of the doubt, otherwise we should just be uninstalling the game.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[DJLarryt]

@garysmcdermott Add in the Terrances that stop dead when they hit a balloon, and the silver birds that bounce off rocks even with a direct hit…. and let’s not get into the TNT boxes that can take up to six hits with stones or birds before they actually detonate…. but will detonate in mid-air without anything even touching them once a structure collapses. >:(

[Sutekh137]

@djlarryt

Terence bouncing off balloons — oh man I hate that. I have yet to figure out the best way through balloons other than Chuck and Blues (and even their performance is shaky). And Terence is not the only on who bounces off balloons — I have had Silver (activated, not just arcing) hit a balloon and bounce directly back for zero destruction.

My guess is that the physics dynamics are too complicated for the game’s own good. I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that in any other AB game.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Aeshna]

For the record, I drew 6 blues out of 7 cards, after watching the video for final throw. I posted this fact about a month ago.

Also, in the last two days, I’ve received spell cards after watching the video. Only saving grace was, it wasn’t a blizzard.

I’ve also seen an opponent draw three bombs in a row after being greyed out. That for me questions again the statement we are playing actual players. I appreciate it in that it may be a bug, but this bug only ever works one way! I’ve never had three bombs in a row.

I do appreciate Banklers information regarding AB2 but one question I’ve never seen answered is the disparity in levels a few players have. I.e. 4 lvl 8 cards, 2 lvl 7 cards and a lvl 3. That said I haven’t come across this type of player for a few weeks ago. Have they been cheat filtered out?

[Anonymous]

@sutekh137 @djlarryt

Funny you guys mentioned the rejected birds thing because I think I’ve got new one.

I was at the final stage of a King Pig boss level in Ham Fransisco. King Pig was crouched into a corner so I decided to blow him out of there with Silver. Well I shot Silver into a fan and when she got over King Pig’s head I activated her loop. She hit King Pig directly on the head but instantly turned into a corpse (Doing next to no damage) and rolled off his head. When she hit the ground her slam just finally decided to activate. :/

[MVNLA2]

Are our arena leaderboards filled with people who are actually competing in a higher league? If so, do they keep us from winning? If people who are actually in a higher league occupy the highest spots and keep the people who are really in the league from winning, that is just cheating on Rovio’s part. If they don’t keep us from winning, they discourage most of the people actually in that league from even playing. This was a serious problem early on in the Epic arena, but was eventually fixed. See my comments below.
I’m in the Emerald league. The current leaderboard is
Red #4695 291 Amethyst league
Boris 207 Amethyst
MVNLA (me) 197 Emerald
Hactek 138 Amethyst (Russian letters)
Noemi 118 Amethyst
Aaron 118 Amethyst
Marta 70 Emerald
Red #65209 70 Emerald
The rest are all Emerald.
Why are there so many players in Amethyst league in my Emerald league? In particular the player called Hactek normally doesn’t play very hard until late in the week (this is the 3rd week in a row he’s been in my league). It seems like he might really be in Amethyst, and needs to play hard all week to advance.
What is the point of “competing” in the arena if everyone on our leaderboard isn’t on the same leaderboard?

[Gary S McD]

@sutekh137 Thanks for the passive-agressive reply, “At some point and on some of these issues we need to give Rovio the benefit of the doubt, otherwise we should just be uninstalling the game”

Obviously, you are playing at not being a rovio employee while Bankler takes it on the chin. It is a handy way to work a discussion forum, but you show your hand when you attack the person who you are supposed to act like you are supporting.

All that I am saying is that rovio has a great game, they should not cave in to the desire to use artificial means to drive more revenue. Carry that water to the next meeting and stop being so thin-skinned with the people you are trying to demonstrate empathy with

[Gary S McD]

@mvnla2 More than likely they did really poorly in a higher league and got dropped to the lower league that you are in (the bottom three players drop to the next league down)

I have considered the tactic of loosing a tournament so bad that I drop to a lower level or two (at Diamond now) so that I could rack up some easy wins since I still do not have a gold medal for first place.

To be honest it would mean that I would not be playing any (or many) games for a couple of weeks and I really have a hard time staying away from the game :)

Anyhow, if a player comes in the top three in their tournament, then they should be on the higher league the next time around. I do not know how strictly they enforce player name uniqueness, but I suppose that it would be possible to have a few birds, and give them all the same alias. But I do not think that there is a market for maxed-out angry bird characters like there is for WoW

[Sutekh137]

@garysmcdermott

Gary,

I have no idea where you’re coming up with this level of attitude for a game, but I would hope you would read more of what I’ve said (here or on any other thread related to the absolute debacle that is AB2). Why would I waste my time playing passive-aggresive mind games on a game forum?

Please check several other threads and see where I’ve come down on Rovio completely un-apologetically. They’ve broken almost every Rovio game I play at one point or another, quite often in spectacular fashion (like the game stops even loading). And I whine and moan on these forums and directly to them. Would I start a whole thread about ridding AB2 of the crapola that is Blizzard if I worked for Rovio? Cripes, I’d hope a few other souls on these boards would actually put up for me against such a nonsensical affront. Or would that just solidify your opinion that I’m some sort of robot or Rovio plant?

What gets me the most is the opening line you quote from me about uninstalling the game (don’t even get me started on how backwards it is to think a Rovio employee would use uninstalling a Rovio product as some sort of clever attack — just think about it). You know why I wrote that? Because I wonder about myself as to why I don’t just rid my tablet of this game that drives me crazy and makes me grimace when new content is released. I’ve been belly-aching at @bankler NON_STOP… I’d have him tell you I don’t work for Rovio, but like I said before — you’d probably just say that is part of the act.

Any time you want to PM me discuss this, I’ll tell you where I live and where I work. Directly and non-passively. I’ve nothing to hide.

You have no proof other than personal perception that Rovio is using anything artificial to generate revenue. In any case, why would they need to use anything artificial? They already weighted the game toward money spenders: gems, spells, etc. Spenders and cheaters dominate the boards. I know this, and like you I am trying to make the game better. In my opinion, the first step to that is sounding off about what I think are real problems and what I think are perceived problems (but that turn out not to be real). That’s not an insult to you. That’s an attempt at keeping the signal-to-noise ratio as high as possible. I have very little hope that Rovio is going to change much of anything, but the higher the signal, the better chance we have.

Bottom line: I didn’t reply to you in any intentionally insulting way, not passively or otherwise. And if I pissed you off, I genuinely apologize. I said I disagreed with you saying Rovio was planting crappy birds for us as extras, because I personally think that’s simply not true. You don’t have any proof, but then again neither do I. All I can go by is my own experience. What happened for me today? I only had to draw two extra birds today: I drew into a Terence and won, and I drew into a Bomb and lost (I was really far behind and I didn’t get to start Bomb on a fresh level — but you can’t hope for much better than Bomb). So, I was 2 for 2 on really good extra birds.

If you think I was saying anything other than my own opinion based on my own experience, then I’m not sure how else to communicate with you. Good luck in the game.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Sutekh137]

@partshade

Say, whaaaa? Oh man, that is a new definition of suckage. Boss pig is already hard enough to take out on those levels.

Was that a water level? If it is any consolation, even if you had popped him out, it probably would have taken, 3, 6, 47 more birds to get him out of the water and off the edge. I HATED these boss levels, and they were all pretty much the same. Ugh. The only reason I had gems to spend on continues was because I was in the 30-minute reward zone (no longer am).

bankler has said Rovio keeps track of all our runs, even some campaign ones. You’d think they’d see when clearly impossible physical events occur and find ways to fix them. Like I said previously, the physics engine is too complicated for it’s own good, and I doubt Rovio can replicate any one oddity.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Anonymous]

@sutekh137 Nope not a water level. Just lots of fans and bounce pads. Thing is, he only had about 1/4 health level so Silver and the next bird would have probably popped him.

Agreed. The newer boss levels are just repetitive, hard and uncreative. At least players can pretty much guarantee 3-stars though. Assuming that they have the patience to complete it. :P

Really? I never knew that they tracked champaign levels. And the game still has immortal mini pigs…

I did see that comment, and I completely agree. The game started out so well though. Do you think this has something to do with the mass amount of Rovio employees let go? Maybe those employees worked in the AB2 department, and considering the others we’re likely cheaper to pay, the game dropped in quality.

[Gary S McD]

@sutekh137 Thank you for your reply, I did not consider that you would take such offence.
Relax, have a coffee and enjoy your day.
Thanks,
Gary

[Sutekh137]

@garysmcdermott

I don’t drink coffee.

@partshade

I am not sure how much they track campaign levels, especially if you aren’t syncing via Facebook. Bankler just mentioned that they do keep track of campaign levels in somewhat the same way they record Arena battles to pit against others for the pseudo-PvP expreience. Like I told bankler, I just wish they would sync to the Rovio servers the same way they do for AB, Epic, SW2, etc. Nice to know backups are in the cloud, and not via money-grubbing Facebook.

As far as Rovio’s business philosophy and what is all going on there, I think we’d have to have a philosophical conversation about pay-up-front vs. in-app-purchases. I wish to goodness that Rovio would offer games that I could just pay for and never see ads (can you imagine that?). But they are too deep in IAP to have two versions of the app. What I would LIKE to see is that at least the mentality of the developers at Rovio was more akin to, “Imagine the users have paid up front for this and there is no IAP — would we be doing the kind of crap we are doing? Would we allow spells in the Arena? Would we ask people to pay for more red gifts and then nuke red gifts from the game?” And so on. I think folks who purchases bonuses involving red gifts should file a class action lawsuit against Rovio. Would that be the first suit filed against IAP fraud?

I do think the layoffs are indicative of a couple things. One, IAP games are the norm now, and so game makers are more concerned with that than actually delivering a fun user experience. Addiction is preferred to actual game-play. Two, Rovio had gotten a bit fat off their early success and have had to pull back. They’ve also reached some saturation with other marketing avenues like selling Angry Bird t-shirts and PJs. Has the smaller staff led to shortcuts, or has the “shortcut to cash” mentality (read: IAP) led to smaller staff? Kind of a chicken and egg thing there, and the cycle is firmly rooted in the shift to IAP. Are gamers lucky for the plethora of free games, or cursed by the lower signal-to-noise ratio where “signal” is truly fun gameplay and “noise” is ads and being crushed by people who spend tons of cash on IAP?

I’m not sure of the answer to that question. But I sure keep playing a lot of free games. *smile*

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Sicilian]

I would just like to know how to stop getting emails every time someone posts a message in this topic. I’ve already gone into my settings and specified that I don’t want any more emails, but I still keep getting them. I would gladly have my account deleted if that’s what it takes. Can anyone tell me what I need to do to make that happen, because I can’t find it. Thanks,.

[Sutekh137]

@thesicilian

Did you go to the first page of this thread and click the “Unsubscribe” button in the first post? I am not sure how else to do it.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[MVNLA2]

@bankler — You’re forgiven for not answering my question, since I forgot to address it to you. : D It’s a few posts above, along with some details, but I’ve repeated the question here:

Are our arena leaderboards filled with people who are actually competing in a higher league? If so, do they keep us from winning? If people who are actually in a higher league occupy the highest spots and keep the people who are really in the league from winning, that is just cheating on Rovio’s part. If they don’t keep us from winning, they discourage most of the people actually in that league from even playing. This was a serious problem early on in the Epic arena, but was eventually fixed.

[MVNLA2]

@Bankler — Just so you don’t think I’ve forgotten you, here’s another question:
It seems to me that the rate at which the destruction meter in the arena fills up is not the same for all players. It further seems that it depends on your star level. Is this correct? I haven’t been keeping close enough track to be sure, but it seems that the higher the level you are, the slower it fills up.
Would be interested to know if anyone else thinks the same.

[Sutekh137]

@mvnla2

I’m just curious to know what makes you think that?

I don’t trust _anything_ I see going on for the other player: cards left, room, destructometer — it’s all a crap shoot that could spike or stop at any moment. So, if you are basing the way your opponent’s meter appears to be filling, I don’t think that can be trusted (just my opinion).

I have not noticed much difference between when I was level 20 and now when I am level 42. If there is a difference it must be nearly imperceptible.

I think Rovio has a LOT of work to do still in order to more accurately portray the opponent’s “real-time” stuff during play-back.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[MVNLA2]

@sutekh137 — I have noticed for quite a while that my opponent’s destructometer seems to be filled a different amount than mine even when we have similar scores. More recently it has seemed to me to be correlated with the difference in star level. Will have to keep more careful track, I guess. That’s unfortunate, because I really want to get away from keeping data and statistics on Rovio games, and I keep finding myself wanting answers.
P.S. Although you are embarrassingly polite in your criticism of Rovio in comparison to a lot of us, I would never mistake you for a Rovio employee. Maybe @garysmcdermott was just trying to be super sarcastic, which frequently falls flat on-line with people you don’t really know.

[Aeshna]

@sutekh137 – you are by far, the politest poster I’ve ever come across on any forum. I would say it is something to be admired and shows strength of character. I did laugh at the line…. I don’t drink coffee. Touché. Just my two cents worth!

@mvnla2 – yes I’ve noticed the destructometer fills at different rates. I would say it varies throughout the game!

On first throw I can score, say 500,000 and have a bird retuned while my opponent throws 650,000 and no bird and their meter hardly moves.

It is hard to follow progress of the meter after that. Not sure if it is to do with star rating of opponent though. Knowing Rovio, it could be anything.

I did say a few weeks ago, everyone has a unique game experience when playing AB2 and the disclosure that you can see players in your league but they may not see you just confirms that!

I’m in the diamond league and there’s no way I’ll get gold without spending. For the past four weeks winner has scored a 1000. Top score is currently 979. I’m on 250 and if you have less than 80, you are in a relegation slot.

[Gary S McD]

@mvnla2 not sarcastic as much as blunt. If I think something I say it, how the person reacts tells me a lot, or to drag out an oldy, but goody… “On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog”