List of Self-Destroying and Unstable Levels (Moved to the "New Forum"!) Page 19
  • @mvnla2 - This morning I did 100 restarts and had 4 left falls, 2 right falls, so overall 9 left, 7 right, pulled out the timer on the mini to track time and action

    Left - 1min 55 sec longest time, 32 seconds shortest (8K - 22K)
    Right - 48 sec for each (13K - 24K)

    - 10 sec, L roof starts rocking or R top floor starts sliding; if no obvious movement, give 10 more seconds then ok to stop if no more movement
    - 20 sec, L jiggles faster, R offset from base blocks about 1/4
    - 30 sec, L or R., structure starts jiggling/sliding more, or all movement stops
    - 1 min, hanging fish still swaying; if structures still jiggly, wait, otherwise it's not going anywhere
    - 1 min 15, cap piece from roof structure slips off from its position; how it slip seems to either stabilize or destabilize the structure
    - 1 min, 40 sec, fish stop swaying; if structure doesn't show obvious movement, it will not fall; if it still has movement on its own, good chance it should fall by 2 min

    The swaying fish seem to be the final time mark for whether or not there's a likelihood that an unstable structure will fall - maybe they mirror the action of a strong wind that destabilizes the buildings so they can do a "Galloping Gertie". All action appears to be over by 2 minutes, even on the slow falls.
  • @tbk1 -- Thanks for the additional info.
    As for me, enough is enough! Well, actually it should have been enough quite a while ago, but I kept resetting while I was doing other things, so didn't take any time (yeah, right).
    I have an iPad 2 (I think) model MC769LL
    Runs IOS 4.3.2 (not the most recent, but I haven't upgraded).
    Did a hard close before starting (closed app on multi-tasking bar)
    Right fell once for 29330 (20th restart)
    Left fell 8 times for 21.8 (12), 18.6 (30), 20.7 (34), 15.6 (37), 22.3 (67), 10.6 (80), 12 (86), 21.8 (90)
    Notice that no falls from 37 to 67!
    Right leaned 19 times without falling
    Left leaned 4 times without falling
    Right and left both leaned 3 times without falling (not included in L / R totals above)
  • Calling all programmers: @vuelva @BirdLeader @Truckdriver -- I know there are others. Can any of you explain why the self-destruction should depend on platform and operating system, in addition to version number?
  • @SweetP ABS Moon 2-11 -- What platform and program version are you playing? I just did 30 restarts on iPad, and although I saw boulder roll maybe 1/8 revolution to right several times, at least as often the tower it's on seemed to be tilting left!.
    I'm playing Seasons v3.3.0
    @tbk1 -- Forgot to list version above.
  • @mvnla2 summary for all my info for ABS YOD 1-3
    - iPad2 model MC981LL/A, ios 6.1.3, ABS v. 3.3.0 (falls about 1/20, more than with mini)
    - iPad mini model MD530LL/A, ios 6.1.3, ABS v. 3.3.0 (falls about 1/30)
    - PC win 8, ABS v. 3.3.0 (falls very rarely, still just the one time)
    A bit off track, thank you for the nomination (and "he" is actually "she" - I never completed my profile). This has been a lot of fun (I'm a bit compulsive about tracking down problems).
  • @mvnla2 - I'll confirm ABS Moon 2-11 as @SweetP reports, but it only seems to roll off the ledge for the iPad2 (often, about 1/10 for 36-42K) and PC (less often, maybe 1/30 for 37-43K). On the iPad mini it never rolled off - it was solid as a rock!.
    Uploaded the screenshots starting here, and there was one more (the very first reset) but I was so excited I forgot to take the shot before I tried for a new high score (and failed).
    Interesting thing is on the first pair of shotscreens, first the farthest right structure fell (the wood under the the fan just slid out and collapsed the structure), then the rock finished rolling off the screen and did the rest of the damage, so it looks like both are a bit unstable.
  • Update ABS Moon 2-11 on iPad mini - commercials on TV have a use, they give you time for endless restarts. In this case it was necessary. The rock does roll off, and once the far right tower also collapsed just before the rock rolled off, and one time only the far right tower collapsed.
    The frequency pattern is very different. You have long dry spells (70 to 120), then twice had 2 falls within 10 restarts, then another long dry spell. First 6 falls took about 350 restarts. Averages about 1/60, for 37-43K. Can post screenshots when I get home from work, but the damage pattern is same as PC and iPad shots.
  • @tbk1 -- Sorry for calling you "he", don't know why I thought you were. I'm also "she". Thanks for all the data.
    @to mock a mocking bird -- Very interesting theory about the differences. I did do technical programming for many years (mostly Fortran, some Mathematica, etc.), and that obviously influences my perspective. Any self-respecting technical programmer would never stand for different results on different platforms, but then we never dealt with mobile devices.
  • @asd -- Hi! Would really appreciate it if you could ask a box2D programing expert at Rovio to explain to us why self-destruction varies so much from platform to platform, and even from one operating system to another on the same platform. See To Mock a Mocking Bird's discussion above.
  • @mvnla2 I'm on an Android platform Seasons v3.3.0. Thank you @tbk1 for the 2-11 screenshots.
    I just went back to this level and reset it 4 times when it happened. Then I reset 23, 8, 16 more times. So I think it's inconsistent in when the boulder wants to roll to the right. I did notice a few times when it rolled maybe a little bit but stopped, and like you saw it tilted slightly to the left!
    So, I think we're beginning to see that there are differences between the various devices we all play on, which also confirms my belief that it can be harder to score better on Android platforms. It seems like the birds do not have the same amount of power/force to create more damage or break through various materials as much, even though duplicating exactly as shown in the ABN or others' contribution of walkthrough videos. Frustrating to say the least, but just makes me more determined to be a better flinger.
  • That would certainly explain why some of the walkthroughs that seem to rely on a "lucky fall" of the pieces really don't help a lot. If you are working on a device that doesn't give the falling pieces that extra nudge, you might have a lot less damage and need a different solution.
    I know I had at least one level where it always looked like everything hit the same as the walkthrough, but my pieces never caused the same amount of damage. Now my curiosity is getting the better of me, and I think I'll explore Moon 2-11 in more detail to see if the variations persist, and see if ABS and ABS-HD behave the same on the same device.
  • @SweetP -- Not sure how far you can get with the argument that Androids in general are harder to play on. I certainly am convinced that there is a difference between platforms, but not sure that it ends up favoring one over the others overall. @Rdnzlrips82 plays on Android, and he gets pretty high scores when he puts his mind to it.
    People have suggested this before, and it always gets shot down by the admins.
    However, they do have the data that could be used to verify or refute this theory. It would be merely somewhat time consuming (this is more time than I would be willing to spend) for a non-admin to go through the top 100 for a specific game and find out what platform everyone used. But you really need to know what percent of ABN members use each platform, and no way can I imagine doing that. I'm thinking that one of the admins, maybe only BirdLeader, could create a code to do both of these tasks automatically.
    Oh well, in my dreams. : ((
  • @SweetP @tbk1 ABS Moon 2-11: partial; 30 to 45K; boulder rolls to right; falls off; hits right tower; pops all pigs in right tower and pig and TNT in gap.
    I can't believe that as I was looking at level to write this, it actually happened for 42K! First time in how many restarts? I guess it's only 30 something.
  • @flassari Good to see you stop in to celebrate ABN's 3rd birthday! Didn't think you were still keeping track of ABN. I asked @ASD (see above) if a box2D programing expert at Rovio could explain to us why self-destruction varies so much from platform to platform, and even from one operating system to another on the same platform. (See To Mock a Mocking Bird's discussion above). Can you help us?
  • @mvnla2, on ABS YotD lv 3 I test it in v2.3.0, right structur is stable, nothing movement, but left tower in my 50 restart it fall 2 time for 23k and 18k.
  • ABS Picnic 1-27. Left side fell for 37K.
  • @tbk1 -- Impressive, you have much more patience than I do.
  • @mvnla2 - not patience, boredom. Shark Week + Sharkfest = 6 hrs per evening of commercial TV, so LOTS of time to fill in forms. :-)
  • ABS BTS, 1-13: The vertical wood plank between the wood triangles at the top of the two halves of the right tower falls to the ground. Happens randomly, ~3/23 resets, 300-420 points. Sometimes it will start to slide down and stop, getting "pinched" between the two triangles, 0-50 points.

    Many times, after the plank has dropped to the ground, the left half of the tower will start swaying. Sometimes it will lean to the right, but a few times it continued swaying and the cement and wood pieces at the top shifted but I haven't seen any collapse...yet. When I have more time, I'll revisit this level and see if there is any more self-destruction.
  • Wow, @tbk1, I agree with @mvnla2! ABS Moon 2-11...You do have a lot of patience (boredom) and I appreciate your time to do all of the research and show your results in the spreadsheet (that's a lot of work!).

    @mvnla2, I know you're busy so when you get a chance, could you please add ABS Summer 1-28 to the first page? (See my comment about it on page 18)
    Thank you kindly.
  • @SweetP -- Thanks and Sorry! I thought I had caught up with everything on the last page.
  • Hi, mvnla2. How about a couple from ABS-GGGL and one really odd ball from ABS Moon?

    ABS-GGGL 1-2: partial, almost no points. When the first bird plops into the slingshot, the entire landscape bounces and >1/2 the time either the mid-level clover on the left side of the left structure or the clover on the top of the right structure POP! and explode for 110 points.

    ABS-GGGL 1-2: partial, almost no points but helps the layout for later shot; maybe 1/10 - 1/20 for best results. The bounce noted above starts the right tower jiggling so the structure starts to lean to the right. No points from the lean, but a lucky hit to the left tower can push it into the right so it topples.

    ABS-GGGL 1-8: partial, almost no points, about 1/10, but it sets up for the next shot to destroy a lot. The two T-shaped sets supporting the top shelf at the right start to slip apart immediately. Only 10 - 40 points if they drop off, but if they move far enough apart, they destabilize the entire right side so a lucky shot hitting the dynamite with the red bird can collapse almost most, maybe all, of the structure.

    Final one is a curiosity, probably never repeatable, from ABS Moon 2-11. Extremely rare (seen 1/6000 so far), almost no damage - 10 whole points! Somehow the tower with the rock jiggled the top wood cap on the left side so it dropped off. You really have to look hard to find the missing piece at the bottom.
  • the bonus level you get at the end of the credits is one.
  • @mrangry_bird -- I don't understand what you mean. Please give more details. Thanks
  • @SweetP -- 1-28 added! Thanks again for the reminder.
    ABS Summer 1-28 more like 25th restart; 13 K
    3 more restarts: 7.8 K
    13 more: 12.7K
    20 13.1k
    21 more 12.9k
  • @sweetP -- Caught up to ABS BTS 1-13
    Will catch up with the rest later.
    ABS BTS 1-13
    250 pts (5? restarts)
    9 total 280
    13 420
    17 420
    19 350
    24 300
    27 260
    31 330
    36 280
    40 350
  • ABS YotD lvl 5, top of first tower with small pig wil fall to right, very rare, 300+- pts, visible movement when level is start.
  • @tbk1 -- SG GGGL 1-2 is [NOT] already on the list, but should have been, since I was part of the discussion! Just did ~60 restarts on iPad, and didn't even see as much of a lean as you. Seems very device and operating system dependent.
  • @mvnla2 - new unstable, ABS EE 1-10, no points so far, just shifting pieces
    Left tower - starts jiggling immediately with restart; keeps shifting to right (no lefts seen so far); can be minor shifting or can shift far enough to have the roof piece almost fall off (the TNT keeps it from dropping completely) but so far has not toppled over; happens about 1/5, no points, does make the tower easier to topple when hit with bird, with TNT falling onto center pyramid structure.
    Right tower - starts jiggling immediately with restart; can shift a lot or a little, either to the left or to the right , but so far has not fallen over spontaneously; about 1/35
  • @tbk1 -- See edited comment above. Wasn't on list; is now. There are a lot of comments on walkthrough page when it was challenge.
  • @tbk1 -- Boy, am I inconsistent. I was going to say what you describe about ABS EE 1-10 didn't fit my definition of an unstable level, but I see I've added some very similar comments, including one about ABS GGGL 1-2!
  • @tbk1 -- ABS GGGL 1-8 is listed under unstable levels. Should anything be changed?
    ABS Moon 2-11 is already on self-destroying list. I don't think I would add the 10 pts you describe, because other self-destruction is much higher.
  • @all -- I think I have everything except ABS EE 1-10.
    Please let me know if I missed anything, or description needs to be changed.
  • @mvnla - my fault on not seeing GGGL 1-8. I looked right past it since it was all spelled out. Silly me! Too many late nights, not enough caffeine.
  • @mvnla2 - comments for Moon Festival 2-11.
    The far right tower can collapse spontaneously and is not dependent of the rolling rock. It is extremely rare that both happen on the same restart. Right tower falling does not always explode the TNT in the ditch, so the piggie under the tower isn't removed. Multiple large pieces of debris from the tower can block the gap so the rock and other falling debris don't explode the TNT, which can make it harder to complete level. Rare at 1/250 or more, average 28K damage.
  • @mvnla I do not see ABO SaT Level 7 listed here. The beach ball on the top will slowly roll to the right while the bottom right ball will roll to the left landing on top of the far right oinker. The frequency is almost every time. At times the top ball will knock the bottom ball onto the bucket and then will take out the pig. Up to ~6500 points before any bird is fired.
  • @moondoggie -- Thanks! Can understand why this wasn't reported earlier.
    Did you see 6.4 or 6.5 K?
    What platform and what version of the game are you playing on?
    I'm on iPad playing v 3.2.0

    10 restarts 200 pts (maybe I was too impatient for the first 9?
    11 6320
    13 5770
    14 1290
    15 6320
    22 220
    24 6340
    25 200
    28 6310
    Hmmm -- Shadows on beach balls rotate with the balls!

    ABO S&T - 7: partial; 200 - ~6.4K; beach ball on top slowly rolls right; bottom right ball rolls left onto right pig; top ball may pop pig and knock bottom ball onto bucket; starts very slowly; 1/2; ~1 min
  • Still need to backtrack to ABS EE 1-10
  • @tbk1 -- Only saw a hint of right tower leaning left the one time, and then it ended by the same as your pic.
    When you say the left tower leans right 1/5, do you mean enough that it might help next shot, or only the barest hint?
    Right tower leaning right hardly seem enough to make any difference, even in your pic?
    7 L to R
    8 L > R, R to R (sm)
    30 L > R
    33 L > R
    36 R > L seemed to stop and restart. Can't believe it didn't fall
    38 L > R Finally as much as in your pic
    40 no additional leans
    Do you have any suggested changes to the following:

    ABS EE 1-10: unstable, no points but may help following shots: Left tower shifts to right (~1/8); roof piece almost falls off (~1/40); Right tower shifts to left, stops just before falling (~1/40); not helpful; right tower to right even a little helps; starts immediately; takes ~30 sec
  • Need to revise Moon 2-11
  • @mvnla2 I am playing v. 3.2.0 also, on an antique iPhone 4. I am surprised, because I estimate that the balls roll >80% of the time and the pig and bucket are taken out >60% of those times. The standard point total when this happens seems to be 6310, however I have gotten ~6800 several times which I cannot explain. I must say though that until now, these freebie points have YET to have influenced my final score. I reckon these points are likely to be had without the wait, but I just discovered this today, so who knows? I will have to give it more time.
  • @moondoggie -- There appear to be rather large differences in self-destruction between platforms, code versions, and operating systems; not to mention the phase of the moon, time of day, etc. Hope you can get some advantage from it, but it doesn't always work out that way. Does it actually make it harder to beat your previous high? Some self-destruction does.
    If you haven't read and taken advantage of the list on p. 1, please do.
    Be sure to read the unstable levels list; there are some real interesting things in there.
  • @mvnla2 in Seasons GGGL 1-12 the central section, the part with all the glass collapsed in on itself for 3520 points. I had reset the level & got distracted, so I would guess it happened after 20-30 sec, although I'm not sure about the timing. I did about 20 resets, waiting after each but saw no further collapse. But I also saw the left tower wobble twice for 20 sec or so & end up leaning to the right but no collapse.
    The collapse of the middle was not helpful, it made it very difficult to do any significant damage with the birds as debris was just piled up.
  • @mvnla2 For EE 1-10
    For the left tower leaning right, yes I mean that about 1/5 of the time it will lean over far enough so it can help the next shot because the tower falls easier with a less precise hit. I'm a poor shot most of the time, so I need all the help I can get and notice the little things that make life easier.
    Right tower leaning left is a lot less common than leaning right, but that tends to block the boomerang bird's shot, so would actually consider it more hindrance than help unless it can fall over on its own. So far, no luck with that.
    For the right tower leaning right, yes, it doesn't look like much, but so far I found that when the center vertical posts get out of whack, a light hit from the red bird or flying debris shifts the top of the tower off of center so sways then falls over. I was a bit surprised at the effect. This shot probably would have been a better one since it shows that the very bottom shelf has shifted left, the the vertical wood above it on the right has air under part of it, and the next shelf above it is shifted farther right. That's enough to make it easy to push off the shelf, and without the shift a solid thump from the red bird often just makes it wiggle a little bit.
    Soooo, I guess it's a judgment call on which elements to list, if any. I'll leave it entirely up to you since the actual damage on the scorecard is a big Zero.
  • @karen68 -- Thanks! Does the left tower lean to the right help?
    restart 56 -- Central tower collapsed for 7940 pts, after showing essentially no movement. Didn't take that long, started fairly quickly and took another 10 sec to collapse.
    Left tower leans to right maybe more like 1/15 or 20 on my iPad. Just checked and you use iPad also
  • @mvnla2 I always messed up the 1st shot to the left tower every time I got any significant leaning. I'm not sure if it would be helpful as you want the tower to fall to the left with the 1st shot.
    I just want to say how much I appreciate all the work you do with these levels, & all the time you put in restarting over & over again after we report them. Thank you!
  • @mvnla2, I don't know if this has been reported before but playing Abra-Ca-Bacon level 2-12, today's challenge, the two left towers fell by themselves. After my first shot at the 4th tower which destroyed only that tower I went to the kitchen to get a cup of coffee and when I came back the two left towers where gone. Nothing had happened to the third wooden tower and it didn't help to improve my score either :-)
  • @josephine -- Thanks for info. ABS ACB 2-12 is already on list on first page. Do you think anything needs to be added or modified?
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