Arena Season 6

[RedYoshi45]

I get the feeling the game truly hates me. I’m finally into Silver but my luck isn’t the best. On the first day I got an objective I couldn’t complete (5 wins with Spies and Sea Dog) and another I didn’t clear (3 stars in 3 battles – I ended up getting none). Started on rank 15 into the second day because 12 people cleared all objectives. I was able to do them all, now I’m at #6 but who knows for how long.

[Pointless]

@bubbley (and anyone else who is tracking these TJ procs), every action by a Bird is counted as a possibility (attacks and support ability) EXCEPT the “free” attack when TJ procs. You don’t ever get the proc twice in a row, so including this action in the count will skew the data.

[Bubbley]

@pointless OK no problem I can correct my figures. However I once had an opponent Red proc continuosly. I was told it was not a bug!

[datguygamer]

My board is competitive but they are not grinding. I am 56K ahead of the 2nd placeholder and I am at 73K and this is only the 2nd day. I am gonna wreck havoc in my board at this rate.

Also, I am the only Level 41 in my board. Everyone else is at 50 and all the time I have to face teams 1500+ when I myself am at 1273. How exactly is that fair Rovio?

Maybe they did this to purposefully stop people from grinding too much? Ven then it feels cheap. Those teams are not hard but just troublesome as they are all Valiants and the AI triggers a lot against me. This is getting out of hand.

[Pointless]

@bubbley Rovio said that was not a bug? Very strange indeed…I have been using Chrono Crest almost exclusively since the inception of Arena and not once have I had a TJ proc on the same bird twice in a turn, either on my Team or an Enemy. I have also noticed this to be true with Resurrection (barring Reborn/Save Me, of course)

[datguygamer]

@pointless Want another example? Just had one new team during this whole day that was 1425 in terms of power about half an hour ago. It had a Bomb with the Candy Set. Now, the set bonus is 15% chance for a 50% team heal. Sounds reasonable right? The opponent had that 15% chance exactly 9 times during the fight and not once did my Valiant activate which has a 65% chance now. I lost the fight and my last chance for Arena fights for the day. A 50% chance difference and this is what it boils down to. RNG joel, RNG.

[Suikyo]

@datguygamer in one arena battle yesterday, each enemy bird triggered the 10% time jump in one round which means six actions were performed. This was not the first time. I know the possibility is low (10%^3=0.1%). But it can happen.

[Jadedbacon]

Ugh, I’ve been in the same boat (Opponents getting all the good procs, my birds getting almost none) and it’s frustrating, but what can you do. I still say it’d be nice if the RNG was toned down some. Not outright removal, but something to get rid of the swingy behavior. On the flipside, I’ve had times where I’ve had all the procs and my opponents none, either way makes for a real quick (and kinda boring) match.

My favorite? Getting a Time Jump proc to happen either A: Not once during the whole match except when I deliver the winning blow or B: When the attack procs a Stun/Frozen effect, making it useless. It’s like the game saying “What? You want a TJ proc? Well here you go… enjoy! muwahahahahaha”

[Pointless]

@jadedbacon as an avid Chrono user, I know exactly what you mean! It definitely feels like a bad joke and you are the butt, doesn’t it.

Everyone, RNG is a nasty beast. Part of what I am doing by tracking TJ procs is to show that, although nasty (or great) depending upon which extreme we are talking about, remember that bad defeats and incredible victories stick in the memory much more so than the hum-drum 1 proc in 10 average.
I can tell the same horror stories about not a proc all battle, while an Enemy seems to get proc after proc after proc. Frustrating? yes. Abnormal? maybe, but certainly in the realm of probability, as my stats show.
If you don’t use Chrono (or Resurrection, for that matter), you are also only seeing the opposite, negative side, as these procs are hurtful, rather than beneficial. As much as I can relate to bad luck with procs (both for and against), I can also give examples of luck to my benefit: three TJ procs in the first turn, which coupled with Chuck Chili and Sea-Dog Gang UP, has resulted in a win in a single turn…I don’t think any other Emblem can offer that (albeit rare) possibility.

[Jadedbacon]

Oh I get how RNG works, been dealing with it for years. Part of the package when it comes to tabletop/card/turn based rpgs. My point is that when you have an effect so powerful that it can make or break a match, it becomes extremely hard to balance. You have moments where you feel helpless because RNG isn’t on your side, and completely awesome when it’s the opposite.

I think the problem isn’t so much that it’s there, it’s just that you only have so many chances where RNG can go against you before you’re either unable to play anymore, or you have to fork out LCs, neither of which feels fair or fun. If the “3 strikes you’re out” style of losing wasn’t there for Arena, I’d be perfectly fine with the amount of RNG. I know the AI isn’t that bright, so the RNG gives it a chance to win.

[Pointless]

That is a valid point to be stressed. The game, by nature, is RNG based, and Arena to an even higher extent. You simply cannot field a Team without reliance on RNG, although you can limit its effect on outcome. Unfortunately, these constant passives are weaker in nature (as they should be without the element of chance), and therefore not used by many.
I have embraced this RNG reliance from the beginning, simply as it’s part if it all. Yes, all the AoE and Crit and TJ I regularly field can be frustrating, but it is what it is…nothing has proven to more effective otherwise in my preferred set up and playing style.

[datguygamer]

No matter what anyone thinks, I firmly believe that the Valiant nerf was unnecessary. With how RNG works in the arena, it was better to have something reliable by our side. But now, because of all the whiners, they nerfed it to the point that the AI still benefits nonetheless but the players get the finger.

[Pointless]

I am not at all in agreement with that (as you supposed) @datguygamer
If you want a dependable Banner Set, use another (most, in fact) and chose an Emblem that will also give you a constant effect. Valiant is still incredibly powerful, and used by most, even with the RNG factor.
The AI is what it is, so without any backup, how can you say it benefits from any RNG more than a real player? I find the AI very easy to exploit and dominate, regardless of what equipment the opposition possesses, you just need to recognise the predictable patterns and tendencies. I really hope all of this is not sour grapes simply due to others having better gear in Arena or plain and simple bad luck.

[datguygamer]

@pointless No, this is not sour grapes but I am not fond of any game that gives a very strong item only to nerf it in terms of effectiveness in a subsequent update. Maybe it’s my bad luck but since my valiant works half as much as the AI, I cannot and won’t call it incredibly powerful. It is strong but only on the AI side of the stream for me.
Currently I have a maxed out Valiant set for my XP and my league and I am being pitted aginst players with 1550+ power for some reason and they have raw strength compared to my birds which get knocked in 1 hit. Couple that with the ineffectiveness of Valiant and I cannot call it a fair share to dominate. As for that backup, I gave my share of stats as to how the AI benefits more than me and it has been doing so all this week. Read that again and if you’re still not convinced, it’s your problem.

[GrauGeist]

@datguy – Pointless apparently has bad gears and no Valiant. That’s why he wants everything nerfed and crappy. :D

[datguygamer]

@graugeist Is that true? Well that explains this. But still, it sucks that the Valiant works the best for AI (5 battles since that last comment and the AI has definite gains over myself in terms of that 65% chance and there are guys who wants to make it down to as low as 50%).

[Bubbley]

@pointless @datguygamer @jadedbacon @graugeist I have now completed my data collection regarding Time Jump. I decided to collect the information because having used TJ myself for many weeks I held firmly to the belief that the enemy got more jumps than I did.

I played 88 battles to achieve 1006 enemy actions.
There were 96 jumps which equates to a 9.5% chance.
Of those 88 battles:
34 had 0 jumps
29 had 1 jumps
14 had 2 jumps
7 had 3 jumps
3 had 4 jumps
0 had 5 jumps
1 had 6 jumps

The longest battle where my opponent had 30 actions there were 3 jumps. The shortest where the opponent had 2 actions there were no jumps. All but 4 battles were played against the Valiant banner. My line up for all battles was Wizard, Witch, Captain. I used Valiant equipped with Retaliate. I won every battle.

So I have altered my perception. Will I revert back no.

[GrauGeist]

@datguy – Nah, I’m just messing with you. But he is way too big on nerfing stuff, rather than making weak stuff good.

[datguygamer]

@graugeist On the thread New Set Gears, people have started suggesting more methods to nerf the Valiant even further-> make the chances 50%, 40% and 30% or better yet, have only 1 time effect per battle. These people deserve a medal.

[GrauGeist]

If they nerf Valiant further, I want my Shards back…

[Angry Johnny]

@graugeist If you trash it you get your shards back :-)

[GrauGeist]

No, I don’t…

[Pointless]

@datguygamer although I do agree that having an item nerfed later is not good (especially when when one has spent in-game resources to acquire/upgrade said set), it is done for game balance. Do you remember BEEP! or Scissors pre-nerf (maybe before your time)? A lot of fun to play with, as they obliterated enemies easily, but bad for overall balance. There was a lot of talk about this in these forums, but the general consensus was that these were OP. This is simply what has been done to Valiant, and for the record I am completely against any further nerf.
I also fail to see any real data regarding your apparent AI issue, only examples and general statements. My previously reported data regarding TJ procs debunks a common complaint regarding AI Teams having more of these than one’s own, so taking an extreme example or even a trend without concrete evidence is useless. I KNOW with Chrono I can get unlucky and not have a single proc, but then again I KNOW that there is also a possibility of having 5 procs in a battle. It is my choice to use this gear reliant on RNG, and if the bad breaks upset you, use something else that is not so RNG reliant. Maybe I’ll start tracking Valiant procs and share that, but my hunch is that the numbers will come back very similar to the Chrono data.
You also clearly do not have maxed gear and are complaining about facing teams so equipped. I have worked hard from the very beginning to get to where I am in the game, max level and mastery with fully enchanted top level Sets (sorry to disappoint both you and Grey Ghost). You think I should not be able to enjoy any advantage from this, and people who have not yet achieved this due to not having played the game as long or being as devoted should be able to compete on a level playing field?

[Pointless]

@graugeist weren’t you among everyone lamenting the lack of variety in playable options in Arena? Why anti the Valiant nerf, then? And doesn’t nerfing powerful items accomplish the same as making weak ones better?

[Pointless]

@bubbley thank you for the data. You certainly recorded more detail than the raw numbers I counted! BTW, I think you meant a 9.5% chance, not 0.95 :)

Retaliate certainly is prevalent these days…