Old players vs newer players

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  • I’ve noticed today some of us that played before mastery are potentially at a disadvantage to those starting in the mastery phase. For instance, I made many of my birds, and especially my favorites, Master level with LCs back in the day. Mathematically this hurts you. You would take a bird from elite to master for a 20 % gain, but you are better off taking a “virgin” bird from egg to level 10 mastery. We had 3 chances to upgrade by 20% but the new method increases twice as often at 10%. These birds have much greater attack and defense. I recently picked up bard and SeaDog and by the time they reach mastery 10 they will be 50% stronger than my previous favorite birds. I’ve noticed you can restart your classes potentially, well at least the offer us there. Worth it? Does it start over your mastery for that class? Worth a though.

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 29 total)
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  • Eric2203
    @eric2203

    It doesn’t reset your Mastery level if you buy a class again. Someone tried this very recently and posted about it (maybe in the Mastery thread?)

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    Not too good. I have 3 level 10 Birds that will be passed by the ret of my birds I like less. Maybe if they increase the chance to increase mastery I can “try” to catch up. Maybe

    KillerKea
    @killerkea

    I always thought it was a waste to upgrade a bird to master class by spending 300 LC since back then all levels were easily 3 starred with elite birds. Since they changed the way classes work with mastery I’m sure it must have pissed off all those who spent 300 LC to get one bird from level 5 to 7. I think they should have also lowered the cost of the headsets, since they made mastery so much easier to get.

    KerrAvon
    @kerravon

    @calvinjj2009 I am really not sure what you mean.

    Surely the base stats for all of black birds classes are the same at mastery level 8 (for example). It shouldn’t matter if the class is old or recently acquired.

    I don’t have Sea Dog. But when I get him and manage to get his mastery up to level 8 like my Pirate, I expect his attack and health values to be the same as what they are for my mastery 8 pirate. How can they be different?

    Grumpy Cat
    @inimical

    @calvinjj2009 Your old mastery levels get converted into the new mastery system. I don’t think any of your old birds are “left out”, as it were.

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    I’m not saying I didn’t get converted. Let’s just say Pirate was at Elite class causing 700 damage. A 20 % increase to master now caused 840 damage. If you were converted while Elite to the Matery system, Level 5 moving to level 6 causes 770 damage. Move to level 7 (Master cass) now causes 847. Move to level 8 and you are at 932, 9 is 1025 and 10 is 1127. It’s like compound interest. And the disparity is worse if you had very low class birds before mastery came. The compound interest really piles up, while the Master class birds that used LCs to get there are at a true disadvantage.

    KerrAvon
    @kerravon

    @calvinjj2009 It is highly unlikely they did it that way. More likely that birds were assigned a mastery level when the system was changed (i.e. 1, 3, 5 or 7), and the bird stats (health and attack) were recalculated based on the mastery level that they were assigned and their experience level.

    I don’t know how they calculate the values in this game. One way could be to include a multiplier of 1.1 for every mastery level above 1. So mastery 2 might have a multiplier of 1.1, mastery 3 a multiplier of 1.1 x 1.1, mastery 4 a multiplier of 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 etc. This would give an increase by 10 % with each mastery level. But they may have another way of doing it.

    faltat
    @faltat

    Mastery doesn’t work that way, it works just the same as the old system.

    Level 8 is actually 5.88% stronger than level 7, not 10%. Each mastery level is a fixed multiplier applied to the birds base level (level 1).

    Following your example, if an old master caused 840 damage, a level 7 bird causes 840 damage. The same bird at level 8 will cause 892, not 932. Level 10 will be 997, not 1127.

    This is the math.

    the level multiplier is obtained by multiplying the leve-1 to 10. So level 7 has a multiplier of 160% (1,6). (just like before)

    If we divide level 7 attack to the factor we get the base level attack

    840/1.6 = 525

    Now we want to know what the attack level is for level 10, so we multiply the base health to class 10 factor (1,9)

    So 525 * 1,9 = 997,5

    I think Rovio explanation is a little confusing, because one could think each mastery level is 10% stronger than the other.

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    When you purchased the elite or master class it was describes as having a 20% increase in attack and health. Each mastery upgrade is described as having a 10% increase. @faltat have you seen other documentation besides the basic description we are given?

    Zeke Kaiser
    @zekekaiser

    You clearly don’t know how it works. It adds an additional 10% to the current modifier. (ie going from 1.5 to 1.6) It doesn’t increase by 1.1 each time.

    Elite (lv5) has a 1.4 hp/atk mod
    Master (lv7) has a 1.6 hp/atk mod (not 1.1^6=1.77)

    dr_ishmael
    @dr_ishmael

    @calvinjj2009 No, it is not “compound interest” – the +10% per rank is not calculated on top of the total from the previous rank, it is a single percentage applied to the base stats; i.e. rank 3 is not 10% * (10% * base), it’s (10 + 10)% * base. Here, an example:

    My Matilda’s Druid class is at rank 9. When I tap+hold on her attack stat, it reads:

    • [attack icon] 635
    • Total attack: Bird base attack 77 + 276 attack from equipment + 282 attack from other effects.

    She is wielding a Vigor offhand, not Might, so the only “other effect” is the rank bonus. Her total unmodified attack (base + equipment) is 77 + 276 = 353. Her rank bonus is 282. 282 / 353 = 0.798866… =~ 80%. Since she’s rank 9, that’s exactly what it should be: (9-1) * 10% = 80%.

    Under the old system, it worked the same way: Veteran -> Elite -> Master did not give you 20% * (20% * (20% * base)), it gave you (20 + 20 + 20)% * base. A Master class got a 60% bonus, exactly the same as a rank 7 class under the new system.

    KerrAvon
    @kerravon

    @faltat Thanks for the clarification. It was either x1.1, x1.1×1.1, etc or else x1.1, x1.2, x1.3, x1.4 etc. I just looked at the breakdown of attack and health for each character class and it is clearly the latter. The extra for mastery is part of the attack or health “from other effects”.

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    @dr_ishmael thanks for the clear explanation and example. I’m going to go take a peak at my birds. It makes me scratch my head when I come up against birds in PvP that are 2-3 classes below my bird, but have higher attack/health. I have matching epic weapons and most are fairly new (ie some level 41).

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    @dr_ishmael ok silly question. How do you find the birds base attack? (77 for your Princess) Thanks again

    dr_ishmael
    @dr_ishmael

    @calvinjj2009 Go to the screen where you choose the bird’s class/weapon/offhand, tap+hold on the bird’s attack or health stats.

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    Never knew that was there. Thanks again!

    KillerKea
    @killerkea

    Different sets give different bonuses. For example, Chuck wielding a level 41 Time Jump set will have a lot less health than him wielding the Twin Lightning set because the Twin Lightning gives a 23% bonus to health and the Time Jump set gives no bonus to health. I know the set item guide indicates differently, but there are a lot of mistakes in it because Rovio changed the powers of many of the set items after that guide was created.

    Too bad the game doesn’t tell us the level of our set items when we click on them.

    dr_ishmael
    @dr_ishmael

    @KillerKea Right, I was just going to come back and provide the full formula, taking into account item bonuses like you mention. The ones that matter are Might and Vitality.

    • Might: +5% Attack (normal) / +8% Attack (set)
    • Vitality: +15% Health (normal) / +23% Health (set)

    Here is the full formula to calculate stats:

    (base bird stat + item stat) * (1 + Might or Vigor %) * (1 + Rank %)

    Let’s take Red at level 41 with a rank 9 class and wielding a level 41 Grand Slam set (because that’s what my Red is wielding right now). Red’s base stats at L41 are 77 Attack and 396 Health. The item stats are:

    • Titan’s Wrath: 276 Attack, Bedtime (8% chance to stun for 1 turn)
    • Titangrip: 1394 Health, Might (+8% Attack)

    His total Attack is calculated by:

    (77 + 276) * (1 + 0.08) * (1 + 0.8) = 353 * 1.08 * 1.8 = 686.232 =~ 686

    If my Red were rank 10 but wielding Steel Wall instead (Vigor instead of Might), his attack would instead be:

    (77 + 276) * (1 + 0) * (1 + 0.9) = 353 * 1 * 1.9 = 670.7 =~ 671

    Thus, the lower-ranked Red has higher Attack because he is wielding an offhand that gives Might. The same thing can happen with Health and Vitality offhands, or even with set and non-set items that give the same bonus, since the set bonuses are larger.

    dr_ishmael
    @dr_ishmael

    All that said… I am seeing a problem with arena opponents. Right now, on my alt account I’m looking at a level 28 team with Red, Chuck, and Matilda all at rank 3 (Guardian, Lightning Bird, and Moon Priestess, but the classes shouldn’t make a difference). Red is wielding a shield (Vigor), Chuck a scroll (Might), and Matilda a bag (Vigor), i.e. none of them have a Vitality offhand. And none of the offhands are set items, either.

    I’ll go ahead and mention that this is probably one of the system-generated teams mentioned in this thread, since the name is “Unnamed Player” and the rank bars are all exactly at rank 3.

    Assuming their items are also level 28, the formula I gave above calculates Matilda’s health correctly at 865 (base 217, item 504). But Red and Chuck’s health both come out short by 14%.

    • Red – base 279, item 651, total 1116 – actual 1272
    • Chuck – base 140, item 326, total 559 – actual 638

    I haven’t seen anything like this on opponents with a real name, so I’m guessing it’s just some anomaly with the system-generated teams.

    KillerKea
    @killerkea

    One thing you are forgetting is that differet headsets give different bonuses. The Sea Dog starts with a 25% bonus to the base damage and does less and less damage as his health goes down. I believe the first headset for each class does the same damage as the base damage, but all other classes start with different modifiers to the base damage. Just check out the headset guide which I believe is 100% accurate.

    dr_ishmael
    @dr_ishmael

    @killerkea I wasn’t looking at damage, I was looking at health, which is not directly affected by any class. I did that specifically because damage is a factor of the Attack stat, which meant I couldn’t compare the Attack stat directly to my calculations.

    Anonymous

    I have read all of the comments and am still confused. How can an opponent with a level 7 Red bird have nearly 1000 more points of vitality than my level 9 bird, with recently acquired set items? It is not just Red either. I understand that off hand items make a difference, but that much?

    dr_ishmael
    @dr_ishmael

    @illawarrior We can only make guesses about what you’re seeing unless you tell us exactly what you’re seeing, so the next time you see this, could you provide a complete set of stats please?

    For the enemy bird(s):

    • Level (experience)
    • Rank (mastery) of the class they are wearing
    • Maximum health
    • Damage number(s) of their attack ability.
    • What type of offhand are they wielding (Red: banner or shield; Chuck: book/orb; Matilda: doll/bag; Bomb: map/talisman; Blues: horn/card).

    For your bird(s):

    • Level (experience)
    • Rank (mastery) of the class they are wearing
    • Attack value of the weapon they have equipped
    • Health value of the offhand they have equipped
    • Does the offhand have Might or Vitality as its bonus effect?
    KillerKea
    @killerkea

    @illawarrior It is pretty obvious that your opponent just has better equipment than you or was smarter in his selection of equipment. I know you already have every set item so try using things like the Save Me and Reborn sets. The 1000 point difference isn’t that big for Red since he has the most health. My rank 10 Red with a level 41 offhand and the Blessed idol has over 4000 health. To give you an example of how important the equipment selection is my rank 10 blues with the blessed idol and level 41 Plushies has 3188 health. The same rank 10 bird with a level 41 3 star pig item horn that enhances might and nothing to enhance health on the banner only has 1841 health.

    CalvinJJ2009
    @calvinjj2009

    @killerkea what is the blessed idol? I have mastery 10 paladin with level 41 dragontooth/dragonscale and my health is 3401. What makes health reach 4000?

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