Feeling manipulated…

[Bluedog]

Hi all. I’ve enjoyed pretty much all of the AB content thus far; 3 star in all levels etc etc. But AB 2 is leaving me cold. I feel completely manipulated. There are so many ways for Rovio to influence outcomes to push you to spend – card selections, level set-ups, magician pig, offer (or not) to gain extra card by watching video, tiny inaccessible pigs – I could go on and on. It means that when I finally do complete a level, I don’t feel any personal achievement, just that Rovio has decided that the punishment has gone on long enough. Hence a whole stack of Strikes and free cards. What is supposed to be random is actually arbitrary. Anyone else feel this way?

Topic

[GrimmJow]

I have the same feel about this game…

[datguygamer]

Hehehe, this game is crap.

[Anonymous]

Well at least ABN community has their priorities in order. :/

[rjallenxxx]

Manipulation is putting it mildly. The entire game has changed to the point that the only goal for the player is traveling through a never ending world with wildly unbalanced scenarios designed solely to require the expenditure of jewels and the viewing of ads. One week you are allowed an extra bird for viewing an ad, the next week the option disappears. The cost of purchasing 3 extra birds at the end of a scenario suddenly escalates from 60 jewels per 3 birds to an sliding scale with the price in jewels rising per three birds with each purchase of 3 birds increasing 60, 80, 100 and I imagine even more. Ads are inserted in more and more places in the game.
It is mandatory a player participates in the arena if he/she wishes to obtain feathers but the rewards to winning outside 1st, 2nd or third are insultingly low. Achievement of diamond league is a dead end and really means nothing. If my memory serves me, the higher levels of achievement used to be rewarded through the reward of feathers. Now it is just placement in your group of 15. Feathers, which now give each bird more power are rewarded by daily arena play and advancement- sometimes- advancing through each world to obtain treasure chests. The feather rewards are so damned random, players have some birds stuck at, say, the five level while other birds continue to get feather rewards.
It is my guess there has been a sharp drop off of players who become frustrated with the many changes in game rules/ rewards, the widespread hacking by some in the arena and the increasing costs of the game. Sad because this birds version had a lot going for it. Rovio has just blown it.

[Anonymous]

*CLAPS*

You just summed up the entire freaking game and how much of a toilet flush it’s become.

@rjallenxxx <— This guy knows how it is.

[Vogel Birdson]

Awesome post @rjallenxxx – this is my first AB2 forum post but pretty much sums up what I’ve experienced thus far.

I do really enjoy the game but feel pushed into spending jewels and am now being forced to buy extra cards in order to pass through increasingly difficult levels. And I’m probably still a fair way behind a lot of players out there.

[cognitive]

The killability (ok I’m not an English major) of some of the pigs, especially in Arena but even in the regular game, is pretty amazing. And really distracting.

I can understand making the game challenging but not to the point where it’s unplayable.

[DJLarryt]

@rjallenxxx’s post deserves a “like” button.

To elaborate, there is almost no reason for any player to continue on this game. The entire activity is nothing but a hamster wheel to generate revenue for Rovio, disguised with colorful animation and repetitive gameplay. The rules are changing daily and often ‘tweaks’ are made without notifying players via an app update or bulletin, which causes mistrust towards Rovio. Next step is to keep an eye on your CC activity because you never know when innocuous little charges may start appearing as a result of you “agreeing” to certain in-app purchases. I suspect this app will go the way of several other freemium games, where it will no longer be voluntary to watch paid ads… they will pop up and play regardless of if we allow them to (I have already seen a few games move in this direction when they aren’t already getting enough user permission to generate revenue from watching them).

It’s really too bad because this game started off being wildly fun and one of the best in the series… but I guess in this business, money trumps all.

[Bluedog]

Well, I’m glad I’m not alone! Thanks for the responses. It’s a shame though, because one of the most compelling things about AB was that it was a joyful experience, and AB2 has ripped the soul out of it. Walkthroughs, so important to this site and it’s users, are rendered useless as the set-ups vary and nobody seems to have a clue what a 3 star score actually is because everyone’s scoring ability is different. I’ve lurked on this site without posting for some while, and it’s clear there was a real community with regular posters enjoying, helping, and joshing; I don’t see those posters anymore.
The whole feel is a game designed by brilliant creatives but conceived by accountants. I’ve spent enough time in meetings to be fairly confident the word “monetise” figured particularly strongly throughout it’s conception. Which is ok – we all know they have to make money – but this is a ham-fisted attempt to do so whilst pretending not to.
It’s dangerous to mess around with the goodwill a brand like AB has generated thus far; whereas before I always looked forward to new AB games and updates, now, not so much.

[Dwhite]

I’m constantly complaining about the never ending flow of 5 spell opponents that are basically unbeatable, that is unless I want to BUY 5 spells, which I won’t- EVER. Well anyways my last 15 opponents have had 5 spells and I attempted to back out of the last 3. This is no longer an option for me because when I back out I lose my game. Lost 3 in a row doing this and I’m not gonna spend any more money on this game until MAJOR changes are made. It’s time for me to take a sabbatical from this game. Take care folks.

[Dallasreds]

While playing daily, I went a week w/o getting an opponent with any extra spell cards but today I got an opponent with FIVE SPELL CARDS. I quit the game.

[EffRovio]

I feel exactly the same way. I’ve been playing for months and today after losing many Arena matches in a row I finally realized that many of the “players” in the multiplayer game are AI Bots and not actual players. One came up today that were all two levels higher than me and also had every spell.

I didn’t realize you can back out of the game, but you shouldn’t have to. To me it’s a complete misrepresentation of a multiplayer game. Bots don’t have to spend the time or hard earned cash to level their birds up over time and to have them involved in a multiplayer game is unacceptable and in my opinion fraudulent.

[angrynerds2]

These are cheaters who have a million gems on their account so that they can ‘buy’ endless spell cards and treasure boxes.
We are still waiting for Rovio to eliminate these Bastards.

[rjallenxxx]

Just to be clear, in the recent incarnation of the game, you cannot close the game without registering a loss. This is primp evidence of Rovio’s intent. While there still may be cheaters lurking about, I firmly believe these multiple charm opponents are creation of staff equipped with the designer package. With the proper programming tools, staff can create an opponent with any number of stars, feather levels and # of charms. Clearly done to encourage the expenditure of gems and the need to purchase more. Rovio claims opponents are “matched” with similar levels. I ask you, in your experience, if you feel this is true. Also, I believe, the assignment of opponents is not random. Seems the longer the winning streak, the more likely you will be over matched by the assigned opponent. Also note manipulation is also accomplished by the creation / change of the scenarios. Notice the appearance of what I call the “micro pigs”. So easy to fall through a crack and they are far more resistant to damage.

When angry birds first arrived almost all scenarios could be solved by the right bird flung at the right place. How about now? In fact it seems many of the newer boss levels have so many rooms, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO EVEN GET TO THE LAST BOSS PIG LEVEL WITHOUT BUYING MORE BIRDS.

You now seem to get a few more spells out of the chests but nowhere near enough to make progress at a reasonable rate.

Have not spent one dime in many, many months and will not do so. My play time seems to dwindle every day and was finally demoted down from diamond. In fact, I don’t even visit here at all any more. I was just notified about this most recent traffic today and decided to add my last 2 cents.

[Aeshna]

Proof of manipulation, either by a cheat or a Rovio bot account.

Care to explain how a level 7 can have all level 10 birds @hank
Is it even possible?

Bird for bird I beat them, then they had another 4 cards to play, even after being manipulated, no sorry, kindly offered the opportunity of a free bird, that isn’t really free as I’ve to watch a video to receive it, I still lost.

Can you explain why players can be in different leagues every time the log on as well ? @hank

The game stinks.

[kelshe]

@aeshna I’ve seen what you’re showing and also low star players with an 11 or 12 bird rank. And, I keep seeing these same players over and over and over and over.

[Dwhite]

That’s the exact opponents I’ve been speaking of for months. To me, the star level gives it away. No way people are signing up for this game and dropping $1,000 to upgrade their birds similar to this. I’ve been called paranoid on here for my stance but I haven’t wavered nor will I. This is the exact reason why I quit the Arena. Rovio or their employees can try to sugarcoat this turd all they want but it still smells. Nothing will be done about the cheaters beside some occasional lip service. Rovio makes $$$$ off these butt clowns because people will actually spend $$$$ to beat them or to keep up with them on the leaderboard.

[kelshe]

@dwhite40704…I’m with you. You’re not paranoid, you’re spot on. Win or lose, I’m through with the Arena after this week. I think I’ll win; I have a 348 point lead as of now. I don’t want to give that up but I won’t be starting a new week. Of the last 50 or so opponents I’ve faced, every one has had 5 spells and more than half have been low star, high bird opponents. So Rovio has made the DC playable/winnable and made the Arena nearly unwinnable. That is, unless you want to cough up some jack. And, even then, it might not be enough. So you need to cough up some more. So, Rovio…buh-bye.

[cognitive]

I’m in my late 50’s and have been an avid gamer since the days of Pong. I agree that there seems to be a spectacular amount of variation in AB2, leading to what was perfectly described above as “punishment has gone on long enough” type resentment.

But a lot of gaming is really just that. Selectively random. Before AB2 I spent a lot of time playing online and computer Backgammon. With pretty much two or three exceptions they all cheat. One of the best backgammon phone games – I won’t name it, ask via PM – is particularly good at cheating to the point that it really looks like a good player. But after I spent a couple of years, 15k games, and a lot of math I found how they did it. It is very clever, but it’s still unfair.

To Rovio’s defense, there’s a fraction of this in AB2. Not a whole lot. Any game that involves physical world simulation has some variation. Back in the 70’s we had Pacman, and if you had a good machine (meaning the joystick was in good shape) and could repeat the pattern after level 15 or what not, you could play forever. We figured out the behavior of the 4 bad guys and the path, and all you had to do was to follow the path. I ended up the 80’s with the university high score.

30 years later I would hope we can do better, and certainly Rovio has done so. There’s an inherent amount of unfairness – I see a lot fewer ‘wow’ than ‘aw schucks’ when I play. But that’s life. By comparison, single player Halo (on Xbox) is not really manipulative at all. But I play AB2 a lot more than I play Halo these days.

I’m not sure at this point whether the 5 spell miracle guys are Rovio’s choosing or cheaters. I don’t like either option, but I think it’s more likely to be cheaters than intentional. Think about it. Rovio is recording our games for playback against other people. If they’re only recording great games and the cheaters have added free spells the cheaters will be picked as opponents. Not some ‘just made it to Diamond with all birds at 4 and a 5’ type guys. Of course this is the crux of the issue, whether it is fair to select only the ‘best’ runs for opponents.

I’m at 50 stars, 1 7 bird, 3 6’s, and 3 5’s, and have won 15-16 Diamond leagues in a row.

[kelshe]

I’m star level 63, all birds at 10 with quite a number of “banked” feathers that will be added when elder silver goes live. I’ve played countless video games from Pong, to Pacman, numerous DOS games, games on floppy disks, CD games, role playing games, fps games from Halo to Wolfenstein to all iterations of Diablo and so many others. I’m very good at them and I know when a game is being manipulated. Skillful shots are only part of game play in AB2; sometimes a very small part. Sometimes the manipulation is subtle, sometimes it is so obvious as to be laughably and patently obvious. When I make a shot that I’ve made 100s of times before resulting in a strike and see the bird, right before impact, slow down dramatically and bounce harmlessly away, I call that algorithmic manipulation. Sometimes when I am certain of a win and have several birds left after the opponent has none, I have to fire many more birds than normal in order to clear an easy room, thus my score is being held down agorithmically so as to reduce the amount of stars I’m awarded for that win. Other examples abound but you get the picture. And how about all the times when a bird’s special ability fails to deploy, e.g. Matilda’s egg doesn’t drop, or if it drops doesn’t explode. Or when Blues doesn’t split. Other examples ad infinitum. Obviously, this could be player error but when it happens to very good players frequently and at critical times, are these glitches, bugs or manipulation? Does it matter to the player the cause? No. What matters to the player is that he was deprived of the opportunity to compete fairly. As for hackers/cheaters, it seems that Rovio is incompetent and unable to control and eliminate them. Other game companies have staff dedicated to eliminating hackers/cheaters and when uncovered are banned for life. These are among the many reasons players are dissatisfied and leaving AB2. They’re saying auf wiedersehen, ciao, adieu, adios, goodbye.

[CaptSternn]

Ok, so now I don’t feel so bad about being an old man and still playing video games of one sort or another. I am 50, I remember when one cousin got pong and another got an Atari. I lived at arcades playing things like Donkey Kong and Defender (never cared for Pac Man). Played many different online multiplayer games since the mid 1990’s. There were always hacks and cheaters. And there were always people that believed in conspiracies.

I know there are ways to exploit games. I know there is a way to exploit this game. I also know there are hacks, people that have birds above level 10. But I do not believe the people at Rovio are in on it. I will not question the integrity of Mr. Bankler and now Mr. Hank or the people they work with and for. They would not be here reading what we write and responding if they did not care. They have appreciated and responded to screen shots and facts. That is how we help Rovio and help to improve our enjoyment of the game.

Mr. Hank admitted that the use of spells was unforeseen and has gotten out of hand. He was right that the new arena raised the stakes. He said other issues brought up are important to them. Rovio is losing money because of some issues, so they will work on fixing them and make the play better for all. That is how Rovio will make money. And making a profit is a good thing. Or do you want to pay to go to work rather than be paid?

[kelshe]

I’LL make this my last post on this subject. I don’t question Rovio staff integrity. It’s their competency to fix things that is in question. It just seems that they have a mess that they don’t know how to correct. And @cognitive and @captstern, you both offer insightful and cogent observations and comments that make this forum lively and interesting. You’re both youngsters, however. Oh, to be 50 or late 50s again! ?

But this forum topic is about manipulation. To bolster my earlier post, I offer this: A couple of hours ago, I finished a 7 win streak in the Arena. When I reached the last room, the opponent had a good but not insurmountable lead. Opponent was out of cards and I had 3 left to surpass. I fired 3 well-placed shots. Bomb, direct hit, no points. Terrance, direct hit, no points. Chuck, direct hit, no points. Since 500 feathers were on the line, I spent 60 gems to get 3 birds. Guess what…exactly the same result. No points. Still wanting those 500 feathers, I begrudgingly spent 120 more gems for 3 more birds. I barely won on the last bird. What should have been a 7 or 8 star award only gained me 5 stars. Nine birds to do what I should have been able to do with three. And again, Bomb exploded with zero damage, Matilda didn’t drop her egg and Chuck bounced off wood doing zero damage. A Pyrrhic victory? Probably. If that’s not algorithmic manipulation, I don’t know what to call it.

I’ll finish the Arena this week because I have a very big lead but, then like @dwhite40704, I’ll need to take a sabbatical to decide if I want to continue. I’ll still do the DC, regular levels when they’re released and play the Arena enough for the daily gems. Otherwise… I’m out.

Cheers, everyone. I’ve really enjoyed exchanging thoughts and ideas with you.

[CaptSternn]

Cheers, everyone. I’ve really enjoyed exchanging thoughts and ideas with you.
————-

Know the feeling. I do still visit and read, and occasionally comment. But not so much these days. Hope you will be like me and not disappear completely.

[Dwhite]

What Captain said Kelshe. Genuinely enjoyed chatting with you and hearing your experience and ideas. Keep in touch with us!!

[DJLarryt]

@kelshe thanks for supporting the fact that I’m not paranoid when I accuse Rovio of the very same algorithmic gameplay manipulation I mentioned in earlier posts. I notice the exact same things you wrote in your thread. I’m at the point where I eyeroll on practically every screen as soon as I spot the “trip-up(s)”.

EVERY SINGLE DAY the game corners me into playing gems at some point, whether it’s one final bird to nail the “suddenly invincible” boss, that last micropig on the final screen of a world level, or spells needed to beat that supergod of a player I was just matched to for my 7th level streak in the Arena… at some point daily I’m pushed to spend, even if I’m on it for only 15 minutes. It’s impossible to just play it for enjoyment, everything leads you to a gem purchase.

As you mentioned in an earlier thread, I’m getting to the point where I no longer even care about advancing in this game. Because one day, I will achieve a bird status, only to notice that the next one is at 10K feathers, the game will require that level to just be able to compete, and that accomplishment will take me another 5 yrs to get that high unless I remortgage my house to purchase the amount of tries (not feathers, ‘tries at feathers’) to hopefully amass what’s needed to continue.

And at that point all interest in the game will be dead by other players who basically just burned out trying to keep up with the cheaters, hackers and stupid rich kids.