Mastery Points

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  • Anonymous

    I finally got another class up to M80, so I’m done collecting data. 420 total dojo visits with 7 birds maxed at M80! Here are the results:

    5.51 Snoutling offers per visit

    83.1% of initial offers were Snoutling offers

    54.8% of replacements offers were Snoutling offers

    16.1% of Snoutling offers were for Red classes (vs. 17.4% expected)

    16.5% of Snoutling offers were for Chuck classes (vs. 17.4% expected)

    22.6% of Snoutling offers were for Matilda classes (vs. 21.7% expected)

    28.1% of Snoutling offers were for Bomb classes (vs. 26.1% expected)

    16.6% of Snoutling offers were for Blues classes (vs. 17.4% expected)

    Nothing new here that we didn’t already all agree upon a couple of months ago, but I certainly wasn’t collecting all that data to NOT report back with it!   =-]

    Pointless
    @pointless

    I’m guessing @smwforever45 is done? Not sure this topic is relevant anyways, but may be in the future, as Rovio tends to change thresholds frequently.

    RedYoshi45
    @smwforever45

    @pointless

    Well, I’m not dead to say the least. :P But I have stopped playing Epic in June and haven’t touched it since. Too much going on IRL right now, plus other games, plus the game just got on my nerves lately… Maybe I’ll return some day, but for now, I’m gone.

    Pointless
    @pointless

    @smwforever45 I said “done”, not “gone” :)
    Certainly didn’t mean to imply the world was down one Yoshi :D

    ;)
    @winkwink

    With the new reset of top mastery and experience levels to 90, I am asking everyone’s opinion on their best cave level to autoplay to begin grinding up to the top level. I still use 9-5, but am exploring higher levels…

    marioandsonic
    @marioandsonic

    So where’s the best spot to grind levels now?

    EDIT: Also, I can’t seem to see how many stars I need to level up.  I see the meter, but I can’t touch and hold on it to see the exact number I need anymore.  Was this feature removed?

    Anonymous

    @winkwink

    I’ve been grinding cave 9 again this time around. Unless they’ve changed something, I don’t see why that wouldn’t still be the best strategy.

    Are we all also still experiencing freezing when using certain classes during autoplay, and exacerbated by borrowing buddy birds? That’s been the case for me, at least.

    werehamsta
    @werehamsta

    For me, I decided that grinding Mouth Pool for snouts and spending them in the dojo works much better than doing regular mastery in caves. At least, if you have the Pickpocket for Bomb and can beat the elusive boss more often than not before he escapes.

    Maxx_Matt
    @maxxmatt

    @winkwink
    I can confirm you that nothing changed through the mastery points distribution system Rovio created for ABE.

    If your game doesn’t crush/freeze (while autoplaying) feel free to rail cave 9-5, 9-7, 9-8 for maximum mastery points reward.

    I tried railing caves 13-5 and higher levels caves with Brutes an high Number of Pigs for a better Reward, but It is almost comparable with caves 9s.

    HOW Can someone be both M90 AND L90 right now????!?!!?? So quickly, IMHO, is ….astonishing?

    ;)
    @winkwink

    I found that mastery and XP are almost 1/3 higher in cave 17-5, but you have to use a friend’s bird – best to borrow a Mathilda. I use this cave for using XP potions I get from normal playing all videos and such, would never use real money on this buggy game – too many glitches! Otherwise cave 9-5 is still the best for 2 bird autoplay… I’m sure a few have found a way to cook the system to get M90/L90, but I’m not really motivated to hack phone games 😉

    Maxx_Matt
    @maxxmatt

    @winkwink

    thanks for the info. I tried your idea and it seems good to me. my Paladin L90/M76 and Wizard L90/M73 can autoplay that cave alone without additional Bird borrowing. Any match can gather ~100-110 mastery points. Is It the same for you, too?

    Seb
    @sebth

    If you plan to have all your birds M90, it would be maybe better not to use two “offensive” classes together.

    ;)
    @winkwink

    Since yesterday, XP seems to have gone down or disappeared altogether in Island and cave battles except the latest two caves and the dungeons. Anyone else notice this?

    Anonymous

    @winkwink

    I’ve always found XP from any given battle to be a negligible amount, except for the first time you beat each level. I haven’t paid attention to the dungeons though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they give more. Does this happen to be the first time you’re playing the latest two caves?

    Also, FYI, I’m in the middle of running some mastery grinding tests, and the early returns show that any five-wave level in cave 9 is still far superior to 17-5 in terms of mastery per minute (although 17-5 is better in terms of mastery per attempt). But, if you prefer playing 17-5 for whatever reason, I’d suggest that 13-5 is better no matter how you slice it. I’ll come back and post actual results shortly.

    Anonymous

    @winkwink

    I stand corrected! After pretty extensive testing over the past couple of days, I have to concur that cave 17-5 yields more mastery per run than 13-5. However, it also yields slightly less mastery per minute (and both 17-5 and 13-5 are still considerably worse on a per-minute basis than 9-5).

    Here are the details of my work:

    – I autoplayed each of the three cave levels mentioned above ten times each, with four different combinations of two birds (without borrowing any buddy birds, for various reasons). Those combinations were: 1) Paladin/Capt’n; 2) Seadog/Spies; 3) Samurai/Bard; and 4) Paladin/Treasure Hunters.

    (Note that I tried a few other combos, but they either couldn’t make it through cave 17-5 on autoplay, or froze too often to record proper data.)

    – Average time to complete (adding 30 seconds for time spent in between runs) came out as:

    9-5: 2:22

    13-5: 2:59

    17-5: 3:32

    – Average mastery per bird per attempt for the three levels came out as:

    9-5: 118.8

    13-5: 110.5

    17-5: 129.6

    – Therefore, average mastery per bird per minute came out as:

    9-5: 50.2

    13-5: 37.0

    17-5: 36.7

    – I also tracked Snoutput. Here are the numbers per attempt:

    9-5: 40.0

    13-5: 60.5

    17-5: 51.1

    – And Snouts per minute:

    9-5: 16.9

    13-5: 20.3

    17-5: 14.5

     

    I’m not sure if this is really a large enough sample to draw any concrete conclusions, but it falls more or less in line with what we already thought we knew, except for the fact that 17-5 produces more mastery per run than 13-5. I think it bears further testing, but I can’t commit to being the one to do it.

    At the end of the day, if you’re able to have your phone/tablet nearby, so you can constantly spin the reward wheel when it appears, and start new attempts accordingly, it seems clear to me that 9-5 remains the best place to grind mastery.

    However, if your ability to spin the wheel and start new runs is limited for whatever reason, AND if your birds are strong enough to get through it on autoplay, then 17-5 seems like the better choice.

    I should mention that if your ability to grind on autoplay is VERY limited, then Mouth Pool is probably even better than all of the options above. While it certainly produces less mastery (both per-attempt, and per-minute), it also produces a lot more Snoutlings (both per-attempt and per-minute), so it’s a good way to maintain a healthy supply of Snoutlings to continue fueling visits to Mighty Eagle’s Dojo, which remains the best mastery source of all.

    (To that last point, I kept very careful track of mastery sources during the grind from M60 to M70, and found that despite very diligent daily grinding, only about 1/3 of my total mastery points came from that grinding. Roughly 1/2 came from the dojo, and the rest from events.)

    Finally, a disclaimers regarding Mouth Pool:

    – If you started playing the game relatively recently, Mouth Pool is not going to be nearly as easy to grind on autoplay. The pigs I face there are level 14. If you are a more recent player, the pigs you face will probably be closer to level 35 or 40 if not higher, which makes it almost impossible to autoplay and still produce a lot of Snoutlings (because the Spirit Caller will be much harder for your birds to knock out before he runs away in each wave, and therefore you won’t get the ten extra snouts per wave that form the basis for my comments above).

    Seb
    @sebth

    @poptimus

    Did you use the same weapons/shields for 9-5 or did you use low power weapons to have more pigs to fight ?

    Anonymous

    @sebth

    Same weapons/shields. We determined a few months back that using weaker gear in Cave 9 does indeed increase mastery/attempt and snouts/attempt, but also decreases mastery/minute and snouts/minute. Since I’m able to start a new attempt almost immediately after each ends, the per-minute numbers matter more to me.

    Maxx_Matt
    @maxxmatt

    @sebth
    I can confirm you what @poptimus exhaustively wrote some lines above here especially the ones where he indicates that, beyond all’, is the time/style/enviroment you can dedicate to the game that would guide your “caves choice” more than other variables.

    I’m playing ABE with an overall few time to dedicate to the game; I can play often but for a few minutes and I don’t always have the smartphone ready to bè used for ABE, so… I need to optimize ANY SINGLE attempt in terms of snoutlings, mastery, domo trips and secondary rewards. My own conclusion follows the @poptimus logical reasoning: play higher caves with your best weapons/classes in order to progressively shrink the average time needed to complete the cave on each attempt

    I can actually complete autoplay games in caves 17-x with almost any two birds among my classes while I need some additional mastery level to bè able to do the same in 18-x (and 19-x 5 waves). When I have time to dedicate to grinding (aside Arena and Events’) I gain almost 110-120 mastery points each attempt in these caves and it is good for me.

    @poptimus
    I continue to play the MouthPool only for snoutlings when I’m in need of HUGE AMOUNT of them all’ at once (enchant weapons and gain as much as I can from Dojo, for example) using my well described team Rainbird / PiggyMcCool / Skullkers. I’m one of the ones you are referring to in your last post: my enemies are L52 making the entire infinite surviving loop challenging and profitable only in terms of snoutlings.

    I have another evidence to bring at your attention. I can complete the 5 waves of KPC in a minute, for a good reward of 50-80 snoutlings and never less than 80 mastery points. If you compare this result with slower cave games, you can easily realize that your mastery rate per minute is slightly higher (thanks to the extreme game speed). Sometimes, if I can put the needed concentrated attention on screensaver click/switch, I play a quick series of KPC games with better mastery results.

    Anonymous

    @maxxmatt

    What level are the pigs in KPC for you? They’re like level 12 for me, so 50-80 mastery per run isn’t happening for me!

    Also, you’re saying you’re getting 110 – 120 mastery per run in all of the five-wave levels in Cave 17? I’m a bit surprised by that, because I always thought level 17-5 specifically was better than others due to the high number of Brawlers and Frost Hogs, which always drop double mastery. (Same applies to level 13-5.) If you’re getting similar amounts of mastery from other levels in Cave 17, I may have to re-think my strategy (yet again!).

    Maxx_Matt
    @maxxmatt

    @poptimus
    my KPC pigs level is 37
    my MouthPool pigs level is 52

    as you referred, our combined reasonings through this “mastery issue” is bringing many more subtle details.

    Maybe I could bè wrong in the end but my sense for numbers combined with the gap in mastery distribution between “played” and “autoplayed” games make me think: what if Rovio put another variable in their distribution scheme? what if you will bè rewarded with more mastery when winning games with the minor possible number of hits? . Autoplaying games, infact, is a possible, mindless but unoptimized way to win games. Aside the raw power of your birds (no strategic value, so no real “mastery skill” per sè), autoplayed games are slower and you need many more hits to complete a Level. So you gain less mastery than me (with equally levelled pigs to face) because you autoplay while I often optimize time/victory playing each time the best possible game.

    From a pure branstorming point of view, I can add details of what happened during my daily caves 17-x rail. Average mastery values are calculated in 5-6 games each (rounded).

    Paladin Elite L90/M76 (Bird Power 1247)
    Ancient Dragon Breath L82/E10
    17-5 121 mastery points
    17-9 127 mastery points
    17-8 122 mastery points
    17-7 110 mastery points
    17-6 129 mastery points
    17-4 98 mastery points
    17-3 81 mastery points
    17-2 102 mastery points
    17-8 100 mastery points
    17-9 128 mastery points

    Wizard L90/M73 (Bird Power 1019)
    Ancient Twin Lightning L82/E10
    17-5 126 mastery points
    17-9 139 mastery points
    17-8 117 mastery points
    17-7 129 mastery points
    17-6 115 mastery points
    17-4 98 mastery points
    17-3 90 mastery points
    17-2 113 mastery points
    17-8 98 mastery points
    17-9 143 mastery points

    I’m not completely sure about it but 17-9 is the best 5waves while 17-2 is actually the best 3waves caves. I’ll continue to keep track of mastery outcomes for a couple of days, trying to minimize many possible statistical exceptions along the short run.

    Anonymous

    @maxxmatt

    I just ran through five runs each of 17-5, 17-7, 17-8, and 17-9, autoplaying with Paladin/Seadog.

    17-5: 148 avg per attempt (194, 114, 152, 112, 170)

    17-7: 101 avg per attempt (133, 151, 85, 62, 76)

    17-8: 110 avg per attempt (108, 152, 88, 84, 117)

    17-9: 108 avg per attempt (59, 99, 169, 113, 100)

    These are obviously all way too small samples to have any real significance, but they do jive with what I already thought (that 17-5 is better than the others).

    If anyone wants to post some larger sampled numbers, I’m sure we’d all be appreciative!

    I’m fairly certain that when any given pig drops mastery, it drops the same amount every time, no matter how many hits it took to kill it. Feel free to test yourself, of course, but I’m pretty sure the formula is one mastery point per pig no matter what, plus whatever constant amount that particular pig type drops, if it indeed drops a mastery medallion (also influenced by level, of course).

    For the sake of not being *completely* lazy about that last assertion, I just started level 17-5 twice in a row, killed a Cave Shaman (luckily it dropped a mastery medallion both times), and aborted each battle right away. The first time I killed him with a Red rage attack and a Seadog Finisher, so two shots total. The second time I simply used both birds’ regular attacks twice each, so four shots total. Both times, I got 25 mastery points per bird for the effort.

    Anonymous

    I just did some EXTENSIVE testing of single pig mastery drops. Here’s the deal:

    – Every single pig you knock out gives you one mastery point

    – Every pig that “drops” a mastery medallion (which happens about 30% of the time, except for certain types of pigs that always drop mastery) gives you additional mastery points, as follows:

    1) For pigs up to level 35, there are two tiers:

    a) Level 1 – 8 gives you either 1 additional mastery point (small pigs) or 2 (large pigs)

    b) Level 9 – 14 gives you either 2 or 4

    c) Level 15 – 20 gives you either 3 or 6

    d) Level 21 – 25 gives you 4 or 8

    e) Level 26 – 30 gives you 5 or 10

    f) Level 31 – 35 gives you 6 or 12

    2) For pigs level 36 – 90, there are three tiers:

    a) Level 36 – 50 gives you 8 (small pigs), 14 (large pigs that always drop mastery medallions, listed below*), or 18 (large pigs that drop mastery medallions at the usual 30%ish rate)

    b) Level 51 – 69 gives you 10, 18, or 24

    c) Level 70 – 90 gives you 14, 20, or 26

    *The types of large pigs that always drop mastery are: Big Pirate, Brawler, Cave Brute, Frost Hog, Ice Shaman, King Pig. (If anyone is aware of others, feel free to comment accordingly.)

    Anonymous

    Oh, and so what does all that mean for those of trying to grind for mastery?

    Well, if you’re an old schooler like me, and none of the pigs on the island are higher than level 16 or so, you have to grind in the caves:

    – Cave 9 has repeatedly tested as the best per minute (for those of us capable of always starting new runs each time one is completed), and now we kind of know why; it’s the first cave with pigs level 36+, there are a lot of small pigs that are easy to knock out quickly on auto-play (especially using bird classes that do damage to multiple pigs at once, and using weapon sets that do also, like Dragon Breath, Twin Lightning, and BEEP Attack).

    – Cave 14 is the first cave with level 51+ piggies (levels 14-5 and up). I don’t think anyone has done any testing in there lately, but now knowing that it’s the first tier with piggies that drop 10 or 24 mastery, it may be worth checking out again.

    – Cave 20 is the first cave with level 70+ piggies. I don’t think it’s possible to auto-play it with only two birds, and trying to auto-play with a third borrowed bird freezes way too often, so I tend to doubt there’s any grinding value here.

    – Cave 17-5 remains the best for mastery per attempt, as far as I know, and can be auto-played with two birds if you have strong enough gear and choose the right classes. You probably have to be L90/M75+ as well (or L90/M80+ if your gear is only partially enchanted like mine).

    For those of you who started playing later, apparently King Pig’s Castle is a good place to auto-play as well, especially since you can use three birds there. I imagine that some of you face level 36+ piggies there, which is where you’d be able to gain some real value. If your KPC piggies are level 35 or lower, it’s probably less useful, but may still be worth trying.

    Seb
    @sebth

    @poptimus @maxxmatt

    Thanks for all these very very useful information.

    I have the same as Poptimus for the KPC with pigs level 14 and around of 40 of Mastery per birds for this level.

    I tested the 9-9 with Samurai + Witch (level 82) with strong gears + elite levels and weak gears + normal levels just for the fun. I had the following stats :

    Weak gears + normal : 127, 105, 138, 133, 160, 128, 137, 86, 154, 118 (avg : 128.6)
    Strong gears + elite : 72, 144, 129, 95, 94, 118, 63, 153, 85, 127 (avg : 108)

    If I agree to say that the 13-5 and 17-5 are good places for mastery, but (with my birds) the 17-5 cannot be played by all the classes. I’m not sure that a team with my Rain Bird + Treasure Hunters can win this cave in autoplay. Rain Bird attacks one time and heals two times. Treasure Hunters use their passive ability too much often.
    Again comparing the mastery per minute is difficult for me because you have different behaviour in autoplay. If you use two offensive birds (paladin/samurai + wizard), the ratio Mastery/min will be excellent comparing to other teams (ex : rain bird + priestess).

    Following this, I selected teams with an offensive bird + a support bird to have medium mastery and no freeze. The ratio Mastery/min is not so efficient but I cannot restart the game so often, but all the teams can win the 9-9 with weak gears.

    My two cents in the discussion :-)

     

    bchild
    @bchild

    @poptimus

    I too fall into the old school category where all the pigs on the island are lower than lvl 16.

    So on the last level cap to lvl 80, I did do some testing in lines with what you’ve done recently and can confirm that the mastery drops line up with what you’ve reported here.  Although I do recall that on the last lvl increase, the mastery medallion values changed slightly in 10 lvl increments (71-80, 61-70, 51-60, and then 36-50).  But Rovio could easily have modified this with the new level cap.

     

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