New Arena: problems and suggestions for fixing
Thought it would be useful to have a single place to discuss what we think is wrong with new AB2 arena, and our suggestions to fix it.
@clovos from Rovio has been kind enough to spend some of his/her holiday vacation answering questions and is interested in our suggestions.
Currently there are at least 3 threads with bits of the conversation with Clovos:
Link to Post
From Clovos (12/27/15):
Hey there!
I’m the programmer who made the behaviour of the opponent card drawing. Currently the opponent tries to draw cards to make the end as exciting as possible. This means if the opponent got more cards than you in the start then he will draw more than one card when you draw you first. In my opinion this is better than the enemy having more cards than you in the end. I’ve tried both and this felt like the best choice. However, the bird back function can change the behaviour quite a lot for better and worse.
Now this might get changed in later updates based on feedback from you guys. So if you got any good feedback how you would like to see it work then feel free to reply :-) I’m gonna try to be as active as possible here on the forums.
Happy new year!
Clovos
From @mvnla2 (12/27/15):
@clovos — Just noticed that you’ve replied to several threads. Thanks for the interest.
Some more questions:
* Sounds like the opponents are computer generated, not real people?
* Why would the opponent get more cards than you in the start?
* What do you mean by the “bird back function?”
* What determines the number of spells the opponents have? Seem like a lot of them are always using 5.
From @drpertree (12/28/15)
So my opponent can get more birds than me? I’m confused…
What I’m trying to figure out is – I had a good round (cleared all but one stage with a single bird) yet was beaten by over a million points. I can’t figure out how exactly that happened. I mean, I didn’t clear every single piece of wood/stone/ice but I wasn’t leaving much on each stage.
Also – at least in my opinion – i’d like to see how each bird i use is stacking up against my opponent on the same turn. So.. their score after bird #1 = my score after bird #1.. same for 2, 3, 4, etc.
I’m also not familiar with “bird back” function and am not sure what it means in actual gameplay.
“This means if the opponent got more cards than you in the start then he will draw more than one card when you draw you first. In my opinion this is better than the enemy having more cards than you in the end. I’ve tried both and this felt like the best choice. ”
When you said the quote above – several questions popped into my head. One – do we get the same number of birds? If not, how is it ever fair? Two – If we get the same number of birds, I’m not sure how it matters if the enemy has more cards first/last? Three – are we playing people or computer generated opponents? If it’s computer generated, how are their scores calculated?
From @clovos (12/28)
Hey again!
I will try to clearify as much as possible for you guys :)
The opponent are not computer generated. You are fighting real recorded opponent data and its imporant to know that we have not changed anything in this data. So the reson why the opponent can have more cards than you is because they might have selected more spells than you or they manage to fill the destructo meter faster then you. That way they trigger a bird back function. This means that you get a card back to your hand.
When it comes to number of spells the opponent have its just as many as they sele ted during their run. So if you are unlucky you might fight an opponent with all spells. In the higher leagues people prefer using more spells to get that little extra boost. Thats what I do myself. However, the spells does not have a score multipier like the birds do. So they are not as effective in later levels.
Got more questions just reply and I will answer as fast as I can during my holiday:-)
PS I’m writing from my phone so if my gramma is lacking I blame the swedish auto corrector.
From @daveotd (12/28/15)
No way I believe anybody gets triple a clean board score. There’s enough gobbledygook in your response to make it totally unbelievable. Make up a better answer please.
From @clovos (12/28/15)
I don’t know how to make it more simplyfied than that. This is facts. If you choice to believe it or not is up to you.
The only other factor that I could think of is if we somehow got a bug in our recording data. If so then we will fix it as soon as we recognize it :-)
Clovos
From @dmsral (12/28/15)
The recorded data for the opponent is interesting, I hadn’t considered that. I did realize the opponent score was definitely not a real-time shot-for-shot playout, and even if the opponent got out to a quick lead, they could usually be passed after they ran out of cards.
I don’t really have a problem with the play, but I don’t a week-long tournament for a small prize (if any). Shorten them to a day or two or bump up the gem awards significantly.
Link to Post
From @clovos (12/27/15)
Hey there!
I’m a game programmer at Rovio stockholm and I can garantee you that the opponent scores are recordet data from their gamedata. However I have not experienced those insane scores that you are talking about. I will inform the team and look into it as soon as I’m back from holiday. How do you like the new arena tho? I must say I’ve had a blast playing it since the update came live. Please leave feedback and I will listen as much as possible and present it to my colleges. Happy new year!
Clovos
From @mvnla2 (12/27/15)
@Clovos — Thanks again for the reply. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of feedback if anyone is still playing the AB2 arena by the time you get back. I’ll try to give you some constructive feedback, but you can count me among the people who are seriously thinking of quitting the arena, if not AB2 altogether.
A slightly different topic that you might want to discuss is that this update seriously reduced the number of feathers you can get. The arena used to be a decent place to get feathers. Now you don’t get feathers at all based on your position, and you only get an award once a week. Even the top spot only gets 100 gems, which rapidly falls to nothing. The top players in the leagues must be spending far more than 100 gems/week to get their position.
The reward from your cards is only 32 feathers. As far as I can see there is no way to buy feathers, and gems are only good for extra cards in regular levels or extra turns in the arena.
@clovos — In fact, can you even buy spells? If so, how?
From @Clovos (12/28/15)
Hey again!
We got a very talented analytics team for analyzing how the new arena impacts our daily users and I’m very curtaint that the new arena is doing well. But ofc we listen to you guys and the arena is not set in stone it will be tweaked and changed in the future. However there was a reason why we updated the arena. It did not hold the same quality as the rest of the game, and that is a fact.
When it comes to the reward you can actually got more feathers if you perform well. The new treasure boxes got big feather rewards campare to to the old rewards. And by winning the arena you can buy them to get your feathers!
Buying spells is possible in the spells selection screen. However I’ve been working on something really cool regarding this subject that will be released soon. Stay tuned!
Got more feedback or ideas then reply to me.
Happy new year!:-)
Clovos
From @dragonofheart73 (12/28/15)
I will NEVER advance in the Arena now… 3 weeks in row I always ended up with wrong lineup of birds that won’t help me advance each stage without 1-birding them. Also by day 2, the first place would have 55 to 70 stars already so there’s no way I can catch up without spending money.
This game has became no fun and now is no longer one of my top games… until they improve the Arena or give me some reason to pull me back to it.
Link to Post
From @Clovos (12/27/15)
Hey there!
This is not the case. The opponent score is recorded after each throw. However the amount of cards can differ from yours so the enemy might throw more than one card to make the end more intense. This feels like a better solution than letting the enemy have more cards in the end. Me as a player felt very helpless then, campare to how it currently works. But leave feedback how you would solve the case. I can bring it up for consideration :-)
Clovos
From @mvnla2 (12/27/15)
@clovos — Thanks for the info, but I still don’t understand how the opponent’s scoring works. Hope you also take a look at the thread on cheaters.
Some questions:
* Is your opponent playing the same sequence of rooms as you are?
* When you finish the first room with a score of 300,000 say, and your opponent has more than 1,000,000, does that mean that your opponent got 1,000,000+ points on the first room? Frequently I don’t think it is possible to get 1M+ on the first room I play, yet my opponent is at 1M+
* What multipliers are used on the score? We have concluded that the score depends on your birds’ levels. Does it also depend on your star level? Do you get extra points for using a spell?
* Does choosing a spell give you extra cards, at least in the arena?
From @clovos (12/28/15)
Hey again!
Regarding the room sequence I’m not 100% sure. I will get back to you on this one when I’ve asked the programmer who made it. After my holiday that is! :-)
So the score that the opponent have after throwing their card is the score they had before throwing their next card. However, like I’ve explained in other threads, the opponent can throw more than one card in the beginning to even out the card amount to the end. This can make the score look higher campare to yours but usually is possible to change during the match based on your performance. This is better than letting the enemy throw their last cards when you run out (if they have more than you). Thats what I believe after a lot of feedback when we tried it in-house at the office :-)
This problem is only there because we wanted players to fight real player.
I think its worth it. I like the feeling of fighting real peoples score.
I’m not 100% on the score multipier. But I think it’s the card/bird level * the score gained from the destruction made by the bird/card. So if they throw their highest level bird in thr beginning they might gained more score than you in their first throw if your bird is lower level.
Yes using spells give you the spells as extra cards. It does not affect your starter hand amount negatively.
Hope this answer your questions :-)
Clovos
I tried to condense all three threads above. Hope it will help to have all the conversation in a single place.