For or Against Power UPS in Angry Birds Original/Seasons/Rio/Space/Star Wars!? Page 12
  • I think it's pretty amazing that Rovio has split Power Up scores for Space. They didn't have to do that, it really shows that they care about purists/competitive play.

    As far as increased pricing goes, I'm perfectly fine with that because buying Space Eagles and/or Power Ups is purely optional. You can come a long way by faithfully logging in to receive your daily Space Eagle and 3 starring whole episodes. In fact I've only ever bought 1 batch of 20 eagles for $0.99 and I've feathered every single level up to Red Planet including Danger Zone (also big thanks to ABN's SE walkthroughs for saving me a TON of failed attempts). In fact I've spent exactly $9.95 on the 5 Angry Birds and it's given me a massive amount of enjoyment!

    If Rovio manages to implement this power up distinguishment in ABO and Rio as well I'd say this is the absolute optimal situation where the casual player, the competitive player and the company should be perfectly happy.

    I mean sure, Rovio might not answer every e-mail personally, but with untold millions playing their game, I'm sure they receive an enormous amount of e-mails each day, so you can't really blame them for not replying to each e-mail individually.

    I think it's worth showing some appreciation for this amazing company that has provided an absurd amount of free additional content for its 5 Angry Birds games, and now by making power-up scores seperate have shown that they really do listen to the community and care about protecting the integrity of the gameplay.

    Thank you Rovio!!
  • Does anyone know if they changed the reward time-schedule in Space to once each calendar day from once each 24 hrs since you last opened the game? They clearly did something with the scheduling of the awards, since I didn't get a daily SE, or anything else yesterday, except the 3 free PUs that came with the download. I got a bloated pig today, which annoys me, since I do plan to use the SEs and not the PUs. (Just love the acronym.) OK, I know this does sound a little ungrateful, but I don't think I have enough SE's to feather every Space level, even now, and even using the walkthroughs.
    I'm glad Rovio is differentiating the PU and non-PU scores in Space. Let's hope they do so soon in the other games.
  • @danimario9 You are awarded various items by completing / 3-starring already. This is ANOTHER bonus. Way to look a gift horse in the mouth.
  • not sure if this has been said or not, but when you 3-star a level w/PUs it shows a little lightning bolt at the bottom of the level(on the level selection screen)
  • Cc jolly you have clearly missed the boat on this one. To keep complaining after they made a change everyone has been asking for is just useless. I guess some people will never be happy. What else do you really want. It is a fair playing field now.
  • See I don't understand why Rovio didn't do this in the first place. I just played a couple levels with PU and after 3 star them it shows a lightning bolt on the level select screen. Now I feel like I want to get that lightning bolt on all levels to "complete" them all.
  • Lostgreybird it isn't fair because in O and Rio there is no changing. Maybe they Enter it soon in further Updates but right now you cant sort out in Original and Rio which scores are normal and which one where scores which using PUps. In Space i accept that because they add system before they add Pups. ROVIO should do that from beginning than it's fair. !!!
  • Do you really think Rovio would implement this system and not apply it to the other games? All AB games are very consistent, I would be SHOCKED if they didn't make these changes to the other games.
  • I also think that they make it to the other games too. In that point i agree totally in you @lostgreybird i only want to say that they are to late because in ABO and ABR many users use PUPs and this scores count as normal scores because they add this System maybe only in future updates. In ABS and ABSW i think it will be done like in ABSp. So it's really fair. Sorry that's my opinion!!
  • Pups are here to stay. All I want now is that the icons don't take up the whole of the top of my screen (iphone 4s) as aiming to the top of atmospheres etc is now very hit and miss. How about one button to do a drop down menu to pick. I don't use pups at all so ability to hide them would help (may have been said before but i can't find a way to do it on my phone).
    I don't do eagles etc either (have over 300 banked) - oh for the days of simpler games when you just relied on your birds to do the damage :)
  • One suggestion I would make is that inside a level, when the power up icon is selected (the power ups are displayed), the power up score is displayed, and when it is collapsed, the non-power up score is displayed.
  • While I haven't yet tried to use any power-ups in Space, I do applaud Rovio for going the ABO route and allowing the player to close the power-ups bar and having it stay closed :) Got annoying in Rio having to close it every time the level opened. Will they now go and apply these changes to ABO and ABR too? Would be nice if they could but I'm not sure what that could mess up...

    happy with this so far, and it shows Rovio are listening to small (vocal) groups! I imagined they would refine these settings over time, and am glad they made this change in approach for Space.

    One thing I'd forgotten to do was play DZ again before I upgraded. Now it looks like I've got to pay for the privilege of going further than the first level. Dunno if that was the case before this update...

    edit: I've just tentatively prodded a power-up on the first level of PD. Puffed some piggies and got a slightly higher score than by not using power-ups. Imagine my delight when reopening the level to see the regular score still listed as a high score...

    Many thanks Rovio. excellent way of differentiating the scores, and as has been said before I can't see how casual and competitive players can't both embrace this approach. Marvellous :D Also, that lightning bolt means that if any proof is asked for scoring approval then there's a clear indicator of a normal vs power-based score :D
  • exactly @hinarei I don't see how people can say this isn't a win-win. If there is ever discrepancy about scores, they can be asked to be shown a screen shot to prove.
  • Confirmed that free PUs / SEs in ABSp are still 24 hrs after the last time you got one, not 1 each calendar day. Someone else said this, but don't remember where.
  • @Flassari @4R2 I was really happy to see that you separate scores obtained with and without PUs in ABSp. Hope you make this fix retroactive to other games that currently have PUs. Hope you don't add PUs to AB Seasons, because the system is still not ready for primetime.
    Specifically, the ABN admins can ask the top scorer to post a screenshot to prove they got the score without PUs, but there is no way they can check everyone. I think the average scores on ABN are being driven unrealistically high by a large number of people who are posting PU scores.
    I also wish you would make unlimited use ME, SE, MF available for a small fee in all games. Charge all you want for PUs, people who want to compete on the basis of ability to pay are welcome to them.
    Would also like you to fix timing of SE gifts in Space to be once per calendar day, not 24 hours after you last got one.
  • I second what mvnla2 said regarding rising average scores. I am not worried about inflated high scores -- those are easy to flag and the admins here are amazingly vigilant to keep those high scores legit. However, the admins cannot realistically check and verify every score posted on every level, so someone can easily post a score obtained with a PU that is lower than the high score without being questioned.

    However, even with that, I am no longer really concerned about PUs for one primary reason: I simply do not care anymore. I don't care about AB and I don't care about high scores and I don't particularly care about beating averages anymore. Not sure if my burnout is simply a result of playing the game for a long time or a result of my disapproval in the direction Rovio has taken with the games -- likely a combination of the two -- but I just don't care anymore.

    It's gotten to the point where I almost dread new levels being released -- the OCD / completionist in me is still compelled to work my way through the levels, but I find myself liking the games less and less. I haven't quit yet, but I see that day rapidly approaching.

    Suffice it to say that I am pleased that Rovio was finally able to distinguish between PU scores and regular scores (I think an easier fix would have been to have PU scores end in 5 and regular scores end in 0, but whatever), but that fix does nothing to mitigate my loathing of the pay structure of powerups. I know that the app industry is moving this direction and I simply do not approve and will not be partaking in what I view as an unmitigated rip-off. If someone wants to be a whale and spend hundreds of dollars on PUs, then that is their problem -- there is no short supply of suckers who will happily fork over a bunch of cash to Rovio for a game. I'm not one of those people and I am clearly not the target demographic for Rovio. As long as people are willing to pay such outrageous sums for an in-game app purchase, I guess I really cannot fault Rovio for going that direction. I'll just go find something else to do. No big deal.
  • First, great news about Space, even though I still haven't ventured beyond ABO. I'll get there eventually now that they have done something about the scoring.

    Second, I'm with ChaosTsar, I will never buy Powerups, not in AB, not in any game. If they want to charge a small fee for updates with new levels, that would be reasonable.
  • @chaostsar it is sad thing when one of the most top player lose enthusiasam and interest in game. I really hope that with next update we will have separate leaderboards for power ups scores, although I am not sure if there wiould be place for new boards in GC since there even no leaderboards for Birdday Party, Bad Piggies and Surf and Turf. They sure did a lot damage to game but let's hope it is could be fixed.
    I am very happy with Space solution and I am thankfull for that, as someone above wrote now we know they (Rovio) were listening.
  • @Flassari @4R2 -- Only Rovio can fix the serious problem of PU scores contaminating the non-PU leaderboards on ABN.
    I think the following might solve the problem:
    Rovio needs to give ABN permission to implement a system in which members upload scores directly from the files stored on their computers rather than manually. I believe that the ABN admins have said in the past that Rovio considers doing so a hack of their proprietary information.
  • @mvnla2 do you really think that users entered PUs scores on the Nest's leaderboards even they were asked not to do it?
    Possibility that high scores could be automaticaly submitted to boards here would be great, but I doubt there would be interest from Rovio's side.
    Can you, please, explain how do you imagine that system work? How could user be recognized from Rovio and ABN? How to connect user's account on this site with AB games files on device? I mean, I am really "stupid" when it is about computer science and information tehnology.
  • @cosmo2503.
    I completely agree that some users have entered scores here that were power up aided. Just as people have hacked game center to improve their rankings there, I'm sure there are people here who have done it for the same reason.

    I think it would be quite simple to have your scores automatically uploaded here and posted. The hard part would be having Rovio give ABN a way of de-cyphering the encripted files.

    Rovio would also have to put in some sort upload feature, but that shouldn't be any harder than, say, Words With Friends. There is a mobile app (for both Andriod and iOS) that interfaces with both your facebook account and the game. It would be a similar process here. It sends data 2 ways.

    Since the Highscores.lau file keeps some sort of formatted data system, so the game knows which score goes with which level, extracting the score with the level wouldn't be too difficult. Again, Rovio would need to assist ABN with that.

    To be honest, I never see that day coming.
  • @cosmo2503 I think @sparty83 answered your question better than I could. I have tweeted a link to my comment to several Rovio sites. No reply yet, but maybe there will be one someday.
  • I highly doubt any of that will happen. ABN is the least of Rovios concerns. It's nice enough they listened and changed the PU score system. As for the people that cheat by putting up PU scores when they were told not to, there are always going to be people like that. I find it hard to believe that everyone on those boards really got those specific scores. It has always been like this even before PU except before people would just lie and say they got a better score than they really did.
  • Well put @lostgreybird - I agree 100%. Cheaters will always find a way to cheat.
  • I only put my scores on the Space leaderboard anyway.
  • @excelforce

    Very well written. I agree totally but i think you have to wait several days/week since you get a reply from Rovio!!

    I am looking forward to see the answer, please let me know, thx
  • @sparty83 @mvnla2 thatnks for explanation. Generally I have an idea how that could function but as @lostgreybird I doubt that would happen.
    As for submitting high scores with PUs here I DO believe that the most active users don't do that. When I want to compare I'd compare my scores to some of them. If very few users enter PUs scores it wouldn't change average very much and also can be trigger for "regular" players to try improve their normal scores as there is always possibility to improve scores (which is the best and the most appealing feature of AB games).
  • @cosmo2503 -- I agree that most of the active ABN players submit honest, non-PU scores. However, a lot of us try to be above average on all levels (or at least used to). With the advent of PUs, the averages seem to be rising to the point that it is very difficult to get above average, and there are a lot of fairly new players, whose names I don't recognize at the top.
    I think we all thought Rovio would never distinguish between PU and non-PU scores, but they finally did in Space, so there is still a sliver of hope to hang onto.
  • With the exception of Facebook, any other Retail versions of AB Games for the general public should at least offer the user the option of accepting or flat out refusing the PU's.
  • I'm done with Angry Birds. Saving the spin-off, Bad Piggies. Rovio, from a great game company, has just became a group of money-wanting people, "inventing" many new ways to add in-app purchases and increase their never-decreasing cash.

    To the one who sent me the message: Why? Is there no freedom to complain about these errors Rovio committed since the addition of powerups in the Facebook version of the game at the launch day?
  • @danimario9
    I also thought about stop playing AB. But i will look first to the further Updates!!!
  • What would Rovio have to do to make you happy? Keep coming out with free updates for over 2 years for a total of 7 games only to hope that future ventures can be paid for by a) new people buying already saturated 2 year old games b) soft cuddly plush toys c) implement PU to add replay value for 2 year old games? I grew up during the Beanie Babies phase and that didn't last too long so for the sake of future games I sure hope they don't expect their stuffed animals to carry them into the future.
  • @lostgreybird -- short answer: nothing. Damage done, no going back on this one. They have shown what type of company they intend to be, and I am not a fan of that business model. I'm sure I won't be missed by Rovio -- there are plenty of folks out there more then willing to spend a crazy amount of money on in-app purchases, and sadly, those people will be the ones that steer the direction of the games.
  • For Rovio to switch to this money-grab model, presumably they have some kind of analysis / model that says they will get more money with a relatively few people buying PUs, than with billions buying new games. I think they would do better with billions buying new episodes for $0.99.
  • On the bright side because of PUs we shouldn't see the free updates stopping for these games. 1) the inclusion of PUs will drive the development for new updates financially 2) Rovio won't let a game get "stale" if they can draw more people back to it in hopes they buy PUs.

    I'm really interested in everyone's thoughts on how Rovio could have made money in a better way. I'm sure we can all agree that selling 7 games (99 cents or $2.99 each) isn't enough to keep updates rolling out for over 2 years. Should they have stopped free updates for each game after a year and release an entirely new app? Should they make us pay for each new update? I'm not a HUGE fan of PUs but I really feel that this was the best option for them.
  • I would not have blinked twice at being asked to pay $.99 to $1.99 for each new episode. Alternatively, they could have issued a new app every year (2012 AB, 2013 AB, etc.). Speaking of new apps, this is what they should have done when they introduced PUs -- instead of changing all of the rules that existed for the two years prior, they should have issued a new app with the new scoring system. Fine with me if they abandon updating the old app -- it would at least have given users a choice in the matter.

    Regardless, given Rovio's current business model, my opinions on this mater are completely irrelevant. Kinda feels like we are all beating a very, very dead horse in this thread (myself included).
  • @lostgreybird, @chaostsar that's exactly what I thought. Paying for updates would be fair. I am not sure if it would be possible that updates come as IAPs.
    I also thought about AB 2013, AB 2014 etc as possibility, that would be something like FIFA 2012, FIFA 2013.
    As for PUs I am completely satisfied now when PUs are part of an other playfield in Space and I sincerely hope that Rovio could distinguishe scores in ABO and ABR. As far as I understand what slim once wrote high scores are saved separately for PUs and "clean" scores.
  • AB- 9 episodes - 393 levels
    AB Seasons - 15 episodes - 377 levels
    AB Rio - 9 Episodes - 231 levels
    AB Space - 9 episodes - 219 levels
    AB Star Wars - 5 episodes - 153 levels

    (not counting the AB Facebook stuff)

    It would have been very simple to break these up into more apps. And they would have had millions of downloads/purchases like they have for every new app/update.

    It's only a matter of time before some of the older AB apps are completely abandoned. For the iOS users, I believe that Achievements are already maxed out for AB:O. Why update those games when new Achievements are not possible. That's one part of the game that the Andriod/PC users can not obtain.

    I totally agree with @chaosTsar, paying a nominal fee to upgrade the app would have been fine with me. I also agree that Power ups should have been a completely separate app. It just has caused too much confusion in the leaderboards and headaches for the admins here.

    It will be interesting to see if the Power up pricing goes up on the next update to RIO like it did on Space. If it does, it leads me to believe it is one of two things:

    1) They are getting so many people buying them, that they feel they can increase the price (for no apparent reason) and those people will continue to purchase them, making more money for Rovio. (sounds familar, like gasoline prices)

    2) Not enough people are purchasing them for Rovio to make a decent return on investment (of developing and implementing them).

    I doubt that it is number 2 since they were introduced in AB Facebook before on the mobile versions.
  • @Sparty83 Sorry to sound bossy, but Space only has 8 episodes.
  • @Angrybirdsspacemaster, I'm not taking it as being bossy, thanks for the correction. I guess I just missed counted.
  • I just spent about two hours to read this whole conversation and now I'm bit like in the between against or for.

    I'm playing on PC so I don't take the power ups as a problem 'cause they are not available. At one point I completely understand that there are people annoyed by PU's, but then at other point I don't understand it at all.

    I haven't been playing AB so long as most of you have, I started last year. But I've purhased all the games and I've been playing whenever I've got time for that. My goal is to get 3 stars in every level and when I'm done with that, my next goal is to get a high score that is above average. For me AB is just a game and a way to spend time.

    I understand that people get frustrated when they have been working hours (maybe days) to complete a level and then someone tries the level once with power up and completes it with one try. What I don't understand is that what's the harm? AB is still only a game. If you know that you have completed all the level without PU's, that's fine, I just don't understand why some people take it so seriously. Of course I'm taking the game "seriously" when I'm trying to get as high score as I possibly can, but if I don't it's not the end of the world.

    I really enjoy playing all the AB games and when I found this site I went totally crazy and entered all the scores I had already reached, mostly just to see if my scores are even near the average. You could say that I'm playing to win myself.

    Then another view that came into my mind:

    If you take power ups as cheating at some level. What difference does it make if you use power ups or take a look at the walkthrough video? I don't want to look the walkthroughs 'cause for me it's much more exciting to complete the level on my own.

    And these are just some thought that came into my mind while I was reading this thread. I can't take any sides in this, at least not yet.
  • @lisko

    Wow respect that you read the whole Discussion. With the new solution in ABSp, I agree and i am happy about. I find it just no Fun playing PUps.

    Thanks for comment here

    Cheers :-)
  • @CC Jolly

    Haha, yeah I was a bit bored and started to read the conversation and actually there was a lot of interesting opinions so I kept reading :D

    Yeah, I think it would really be only fair if they would separate scores without power ups and scores when power ups were used. I understood that they've already done that in ABsp so I can't figure out any reason why wouldn't they do that in other versions too.

    As I said, I'm playing on PC so power ups are not available and that way it's a bit hard to say what I think about them. I'm also playing in FB, but haven't used PU's much, maybe in some levels, but what I've been following the leaderboard in FB, A LOT of my friends use PU's, but it doesn't bother me in any way. Okay, I have to admit that in the weekly tournaments it would be fair if PU's were not available...
  • @Lisko I see the "harm" being in that this is a site that maintains it's own member leaderboard and wants to be as fair as possible across all platforms. Power-ups aren't available on all platforms, so scores with PUs can't be entered on leaderboards. The site's been around since before PUs came in, so scores with PUs can't be entered on the boards.

    Watching the walkthroughs isn't 'cheating' in the same way as using power-ups is. Sure, you've got a video showing you clearly, step-by-step, what to do to clear a level. But you've still got to clear it yourself, and this is fiddly! PUs enable you to fling (sometimes randomly) and clear a level quick, sometimes with a better score than if you'd not used them. A bit unfair to players who've entered scores attained using the basic game engine.
  • @hinarei

    Yep, I completely understand your point and I agree that it's not fair to add scores with power ups to the same leaderboard with the "pure scores". I think power ups could bring a little excitement to the game IF there would be two separate scores, one with power ups and another without them. Then there could be leaderboards for both scores.

    And what I said about the walkthrough videos, it was just another point of view. I don't think it's actual cheating but just makes it a bit easier to pass a level. As I said earlier, I don't want to use walkthroughs 'cause I want to make it on my own, but I'm not saying that it's wrong if other people use them :)

    (Actually at the moment, I'm starting to be a bit desperate with one level. I've been struggling with it for about three days now and still haven't been able to get more than two stars, haha. Well, I just woke up so maybe I'll start trying again :D)
  • @Lisko fair enough, makes sense. It's not the end of the world if this sort of thing happens, but it's the principle of the thing, is what I was getting at :) Agreed: if there'd been separation between the scoring methods from the get-go, I doubt many people would have said a word against it :) If we had two distinct leaderboards, then competition here would only have gone up, and legitimately so!

    I can see the view of "walkthroughs being a cop-out" perfectly well, but there are levels where the answers simply don't come. Don't be afraid to look at the text explanation, even if you avoid the video. Can help you sleep better!
  • @hinarei Haha, I actually completed that level just after I posted that comment :D

    But yeah, I completely understand why people got upset because of the PU's. And if I think about it from their point of view, I have to admit that I would probably be annoyed too. It could have been much better if developers had thought about it a bit longer and made a system that's fair for everyone. But that's too late now, we can hope that they are doing everything to make the system better :)
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