Mouth Pool dissected, for high level / medium mastery snoutlings' farming

[Maxx_Matt]

I worked on writing this piece of paper in order to dissect and standardize as much as I could the neverending routine of grabbing snoutlings while playing AngryBirdsEpic (ABE).
As well as you played the game like me (without being warned from the beginning on how properly balance the slow speed of your mastery goals compared with the quicker growth of birds and pig level), you’ll be facing Mouth Pool almost when it will be too hard to be used to maximize snoutlings outcome as a “simple standard routine”. Actually, I entered he Pool for the first time when opponents and me were @ L52, Spirits’ Evoker could not be outplayed and killed 10 times with standard AI engine and with too few achievents autoplaying it with my two stronger birds (Paladin and Rainbird, actually).

I gathered here all the data needed to accomplish the goal of playing the pool without autoplaying it with the following team and for more than 2000 snoutlings (if you have enough patience like me) :)

TEAM
Rainbird elite L70-M45 with L71-E4 Lightning Set heals for 827
Skulkers elite L70-M33 with L71-E4 BEEP! Robot Set hit for 496 (using secondary ability)
McCool L68-M39 hit for 1419

LEGENDA
R2 or R3 undead recharge time
T = 4 enemies 10 snoutlings
D = 5 enemies 12 snoutlings
F = 6 enemies 14 snoutlings
S = 7 enemies 16 snoutlings
E = 8 enemies 18 snoutlings
W = 9 enemies 20 snoutlings
L = 10 enemies 22 snoutlings
X = 11 enemies 24 snoutlings

ASSUMPTIONS
No ChiliRage use recommended aside from considering as “a last chance” on letting my birds to survive before being overwhelmed.
Skulkers always hit with his secondary ability while McCool could both attack or use his seconday ability when safe (especially not to kill all the pigs too quickly).
Rainbird usually heals and purify birds. Minor curses that only underpower birds attacks are usually not purified because they let pigs survive longer for free.

Example of a tipical “game resolution”

Wave 1 – Enemies L52 – Spirits’ Evoker [S – 47175 – R3]
`RageChili used(each/wave): 001
Count of (hits/wave): 223
Count of (kills/wave): 000
Count of (snoutlings/wave): 44T
Time consumption:
Total 18 – Average 6 – Count of rounds 3`
With the previously described team, you can’t kill the monster during the first wave because you don’t have enough fire power or time before he cowardly left the battlefield.
As well as you heal and purify birds with raindbird while attacking with the other ones, it wil be quite easy to smash him when faced on the last stage, instead.

Wave 2 – Enemies L52 – Phantom [P – 1415 – R2]
RageChili used(each/wave): 0000
Count of (hits/wave): 2233
Count of (kills/wave): P00P
Count of (snoutlings/wave): 4646
Time consumption:
Total 20 – Average 5 – Count of rounds 4
This wave has a capped maximized ROI of only 20 snoutlings (no ChiliRage option applied):
T1: Hit with Skulkers for (4), kill phantom with McCool(2) during this first game round;
T2: Hit the left alone evoker with both McCool and Skulkers for (4);
T3: Phantom is back again, now. Hit with Skulkers for (4), hit evoker with McCool (2);
T4: Hit phantom with Skulkers first and then McCool (4).

Wave 3 – Enemies L52
Frankenpork [F – 10378 – R3]
RageChili used(each/wave): 00000000
Count of (hits/wave): 12222222
Count of (kills/wave): F0000000
Count of (snoutlings/wave): 24444666
Time consumption:
Total 36 – Average 4.5 – Count of rounds 8
I always hit the big boss with McCool before he left because it leaves Frankepork alive for a longer time giving me more snoutlings.

Wave 4 – Enemies L52
Poltergeist [P – 3145 – R3] + Zombie [Z – 2988 – R3] + Phantom [H – 1415 – R2]
RageChili used(each/wave): 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Count of (hits/wave): 2222211221222221221222221222212222122212221222222
Count of (kills/wave): PHZ000PZ00ZPH000PZ0PH0H0ZP0H0ZH00P0ZH00PZ00200000
Count of (snoutlings/wave): 4688822882668882684686664666648866468826882888TTT
Time consumption:
Total 280 – Average 6.1 – Count of rounds 49
If I can choose, I hit Phantom first and then the other pigs, because of its shorter recovery time. During the first three rounds, I force McCool to hit only the big boss in order to let the other survive for a longer time. For the same reasons I did not purify Skulkers nor McCool from the Poltergeist curses (less damages each hit, pigs survive for a longer time).

Wave 5 – Enemies L52
Zombie Knight [K – 6762 – R3] + Banshee [B – 5504 – R2] + Zombie [z – 5032 – R3] (+ any summoned Phantom [H – 1415 – R2])
RageChili used(each/wave): 10000000000000001000100000100000000010010000000000000000000
Count of (hits/wave): 22222222322222323222222232232222222322322222222222222222222
Count of (kills/wave): 804212308050K0007234H5H25070600K11121146HHHHH00HHHK00000000
Count of (snoutlings/wave): L8SETDL6W6WWTWW6WETETFTSE6W6ESFDFDFSF8FDDDFDFDD88TDDDTTTTTT
Total 772 – Average 13.1 – Count of rounds 59
During this wave, key role is played by the Banshee. I let her summon as many as I can manage minor Phantom pigs on battlefield, being ready with Rainbird to wipe the board before being overwhelmed. I think that at this combination of level/mastery the total number of enemies should not go over ten. If you are able to stabilize and balance heals with hits you can proceed to alternatively wipe/rise enemies for a very long time before getting bored like me in the example.

Wave 6 – L52
Mummy [2516 R3] + Mummy [2516 R3] + Mummy [2516 R3] + Will-o-the-Wisp [1887 R2]
Mummies recover time is slower than will-o-the-wips’ one. If I can choose, I kill the latter first
RageChiliUsed: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Number of hits: 222222222222222212222222221222222222222222222222211222222212222122222222221222212222122222222222222222
Number of kills: 2M0000020MW0MWM0MMMW0W0MWMM20W00W0MWMW00W0M0M000MWMM0W00W00W0W1012110101110111011010111000021000101000
Number of snoutlings: 6T88T448888868864888888666406TT668688TT66484TTTT646T6TT8TT484888888888868T688886T88868TTT648TTT868TDDD
Total 786 – Average 7.7 – Count of rounds 102

Wave 7 – L52
vudu [9210 R3] + vudu [9210 R3]
it can be iterated forever if zombie vodoo targets are different and the split damages on two birds because two turns heals can cover more than zombie single hit.
RageChiliUsed: 00000000000000000000000000000
Number of hits: 22222222222222222222222222222
Number of kills: 00010000000000010000000000000
Number of snoutlings: 64446666666644466666666666888
Total ## – Average ## – Count of rounds ##

Wave 8 – L52
ship imp [1415 R2] + banshee [5504 R2] + will-o-the-wisp [1887 R2] + ship imp [1415 R2] + phantom [1415 R2]
RageChiliUsed: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000
Number of hits: 22222222222223222222222222222222222222
Number of kills: 10127112221131111101111110021140100000
Number of snoutlings: XLL8LLLLEEWDDWEEEEFFDDDDDFTTT6DDFFFFFF
Total 590 – Average 15.5 – Count of rounds 38

Wave 9 – L52
Frankenpork [10378 R3] + zombie knight [6562 R3]
RageChiliUsed:
Number of hits:
Number of kills:
Number of snoutlings:
Total – Average – Count
Aside from frankepork’s mastery, nothing interesting there.

Topic

[burbman]

Lots of data here but no real conclusion, Probably the only limiting factor in game play with Epic is time, so I try to evaluate different grinding levels with the following benchmarks:

How many snoutlings per minute of game play are you achieving? Mastery/Minute? How much attention needs to be devoted to the game (% awareness)?

Obviously different levels will benefit different players based on the XP and Mastery level of team, classes selected, etc.

[Ckd]

I agree @burbman

[e5c4p3artist]

This is a brilliant strategy! If you are looking only to maximize Snoutlings per hour, I would offer the following simplifications.

Use Team: Bard, Skulkers, Piggy McCool. Rainbird is good if no Bard.

Go to Mouth Pool and fight your way through the first 7 levels as quickly as possible. On level 8, do the following: (1) Use Skulkers on McCool (2) Tap McCool (3) Tap Bard/Rainbird. Repeat Forever.

Notes:

1. On turn #3 the Spirit Caller will run away. You could prevent him from doing so by attacking with McCool and Bard instead of tapping them. But that vastly increases the attention you need to pay to the game and the only upside is 10 extra snoutlings you get if/when you decide to finally defeat the level and move on. I personally never move on; once I am done grinding I just exit the level.

2. Definitely let the Banshee summon as many ghosts as possible. Without the Spirit Caller, the number of enemies will top out at 9. One will always be dead when McCool attacks (after Skulkers is used on him) so you will get a consistent 16 snoutlings per turn (8 enemies x 2 snoutlings apiece). The most you could get on a turn is 20 (if all ghosts and Spirit Caller were alive). The ghosts all come back alive in two turns, not three.

3. There are only two adverse things that can happen to you: (1) The Banshee could attack and poison you (2) One of the two Kobolds very infrequently stuns one of your birds. Neither is cause for alarm. Bard/Rainbird is constantly healing to counteract #1 and if #2 does happen and it is not Bard/Rainbird that is stunned, use the Rage Chili on the Bard or use Rainbird’s ability to un-stun either Skulkers or McCool.

I have not found a faster or more mindless method (and I mean that in a good way) of making Snoutlings than this.

[Jamairoqui]

@e5c4p3artist  There is a way to get 24 snoutlings per cycle on level 8. The key is that Banshee will keep on calling ghosts if a certain fraction of the other zombie pigs are knocked out. So if you knock out 2 pigs per turn for 4 pigs total k.o.’d when Banshee processes his call, then he will call another pig. So you can get up to 11, which is 20 snouts per attack with Merchant pig and Skulkers assuming one pig is already knocked out from the last cycle.

But if you use Princess (or Bard or Druid or *any* other class that can heal and only attacks one enemy), then you can knock out three pigs per turn. That means at most 6 will be k.o.’s when Banshee processes, and if that happens he will add a 12th pig. From then out each Merchant/Skulkers attack will get 22 snouts (or 24 if the attack from previous cycle landed on a pig with ethereal from Will-O-the-Wisp). (In my opinion Princess works best for this since she can clear the venom from Banshee, revive a k.o.’d member of your team, and also if you attack with her all the pigs attack the same member of your team, which can be handy since she only have to heal one bird.)

I have a hunch that if you used say Lightning Bird with a weak set so that Chuck knocked out multiple pigs but left Banshee alive, then you could get an even higher number of pigs than 12. But then you would lose the healing ability of Princess and it would be a race to see if you could acquire snoutlings faster than the equivalent cost of the resources you would need to heal your birds.

The downside to this is that Level 8 is now almost endless since it’s hard to get rid of all the pigs (you have to rely on Skulkers having Beep set and the “hit all” effect proc). But it really racks up snoutlings in a hurry.

[e5c4p3artist]

@jamairoqui – Thanks! I wasn’t aware that knocked out enemies affected the Banshee spawns. I figured the maximum total number of enemies was hard-coded at 9. I am trying your method now. I found one extra tweak and I am testing how many enemies I can get on screen at once.

I am using Bard, Skulkers, Piggy McCool.

The extra tweak is that I equipped Blues with a Dancing Chakram, which has a chance to attack an additional enemy for 50% damage – which at my level/mastery 50% is enough to knock out an enemy.

When Banshee powers up, on his first and second turns I attack with all three birds. Maximum luck would be killing 4 birds per turn – three for each bird plus an extra with Blues on both turns – so that a total of 8 are knocked out when Banshee tries to spawn a new enemy.

It seems to be working. I have a total of 14 enemies on the screen right now, for a possible total of 28 Snoutlings per turn. I believe 14 is going to be the max possible.

Note on choice of class for Matilda. I see your point in choosing Princess. However I still chose Bard. Why – (1) Princess has a “cleanse” ability that can revive a knocked out bird, but this can also be done by using the Rage Chili on Matilda of any class. Since it is only needed rarely and the Rage Chili is only used for this purpose, it is almost always full and able to be used when a bird gets knocked out. In addition, I have Matilda equipped with Yin/Yang so the Chili fills up faster as well. (2) Bard heals all birds at once so it doesn’t matter if multiple birds take damage in a turn. (3) The most important – if using Princess, each turn you have to think – to make sure you use her ability on whichever bird took the damage. If using Bard, you just mindlessly tap her each turn. The more mindless (less thinking I have to do), the better for me as I am typically doing other things that require almost my full attention at the same time when I do this type of grinding.

Thanks for pointing out what you did! This method just got much better because of it! The Snoutlings are pouring in now!

[Jamairoqui]

@e5c4p3artist  Ah. The old Dancing Chakram trick. Of course. Is there a weapon for Matilda that does bonus damage to a second pig? Then maybe you could get to 16 pigs for a max payout of 32 snouts per attack with McCool. That would make Level 8 sort of like winning free salt for life. I mean, salt is good, and you can use it to cook or make ice cream or de-ice the deck, but it’s still just salt yeah?

Of course, since you’ve figured this out, Rovio will fiddle with MP so that each of the ghost pigs deals 1500 damage or something, because, you know, why let people benefit from playing the game the way it is configured?

[e5c4p3artist]

@jamairoqui – Haha! Yep, hopefully this will stay below Rovio’s radar. It is not terribly overpowered, but pretty convenient for grinding Snouts.

I do not know of a weapon for Matilda that is able to hit multiple targets.

[burbman]

@jamairoqui – Snouts are also similar to salt in that one can generally get plenty in the course of everyday events without going out of ones way to accumulate extra.

[Jamairoqui]

@burbman That is true if you are talking about dietary intake. But if you need salt for episodic things like making ice cream, de-icing, or curing meat, then routine dietary intake doesn’t provide enough.

Also, I agree that players who have been around awhile likely have enough snouts saved that they don’t need anymore. Ever. But for those who joined the game after SRC was nerfed in terms of snout payout, I can see how they might now be a limiting resource. For example, enchanting items requires a lot more snouts than can be provided by routine grinding. And if you haven’t bought all the potion recipes from Prof. Pig, those can cut into your snout supply as well. Finally, the Dojo can use up over a thousand per reset, and if you finish the upper CC levels relying on rage chili potions, that can get pricey. Using MP like @e4pci39d2ar9i (dang I hate typing that name) describes is a good way for those players who missed out on SRC to reach the lofty plateau of “Not Giving a Crap About Snouts Anymore Because I Have a Lifetime Supply.”

[Maxx_Matt]

Despite the fact I myself proposed this way of farming in order to easily provide snoutlings when you reach the pool too late, with enemies stuck at L52, Reading your further posts, seems the argument itself has a larger group of followers than I expected. Good!

I tried any combo you proposed extensively, trying to make solid comparison with my standard Rainbird/McCool/Skullkers.
while Bard hits hard enemies, its group healing skill is poor compared to Rainbird. Anytime the number of enemies grow too much their Total damage could catch you off guard, when playing with Bard. Any Phantom kick for at least 500-800 damages and when you face 11-12 of them you need to heal quickly and massively. Banshee curses could bè washed by both Priest and Rainbird but not Bard. I prefer Chuck more than Matilda in this role, because he can wipe the board with a single hit when needed. Sometimes, when opponents damages randomly concentrate on a Bird rather then distribute to all’, you need to kill enemies First and then heal. my Rainbird can kill enemies all’ at once, so I simply need to have some of them killer while the other ones regenerate and let the infinite loop continue.

I like your idea of concentrating only on the two level with Banshees. very smart because they are the most profitable among all’. level 8 is better because enemies damage is standard and can bè kept on guard easier than the previous Banshee level.

i usually get bored of the routine After 2000-3000 snoutlings. how much do you farm before feeling the need to kill anyone and stop? :-)

enjoy

[Jamairoqui]

@e5c4p3artist  @maxxmatt  Just to beat this absolutely to death, if you equip Paladin with Sporty Lance, he has a 30% chance to hit two pigs at once. So if you use McCool, Skulkers with Chakram, and Paladin with Sporty Lance, you could theoretically get 16 enemies, for 32 snouts max per attack with McCool/Skulkers. So three cycles gives you 100 snouts, and that plays a lot faster than SRC ever did. Plus, Paladin will heal the bird that needs it most every turn he attacks, or he can shield.

The only downside to this (aside from the fact it might take 15-20 minutes of focused game play to get everything aligned for 16 enemies) is that there is no way to knock out all  the pigs at once, so you have to exit the game without the rewards.

[Jamairoqui]

@e5c4p3artist  @maxxmatt  The attached screen shot should show 15 pigs on Level 8 for Mouth Pool. It was done with:

Paladin w/ Sporty Lance
Skulkers w/ some weird boomerang thing that hit 2 pigs at one 30% of the time
Piggy McCool

I think 16 is possible but if you figure out the odds of that happening, they are not good. You have to get the 30% effect on both the boomerang and sporty lance to proc twice in a row for each, or about (1/3)^4, which is about 0.012, give or take. Then you have to have the second pig knocked out by each *not* be Banshee, and that reduces that 0.012 number (although I didn’t quantify it, it drops it from 0.012 to around 0.01). It takes way too long for that to happen, so in a practical sense 15 might be the upper limit. Even then, getting to 15 took me about 30 minutes of aligning things so that Paladin and Skulkers both knocked out two pigs on successive turns, but did not knock out Banshee as one of the extra pigs, to get to 15.

The interesting thing about this lineup is once you get it set up with 15, you use Paladin to protect Skulkers and McCool, he takes most of the damage, and you heal by having McCool use the rage chili each time it’s ready. The only down side is when one of the “anchor pigs” stuns Red. It was a fun exercise, sort of the way I remember ABE used to be, but I don’t think I’ll do this again. It’s much easier to use Rainbird or Princess.

[Maxx_Matt]

@jamiroquai, thanks for this additional insight. When you wrote “Level 8 Pigs” are you referring to their own difficulty level? If yes, my enemies level is actually set up at L52 because I descend the pool the first time too late in the game… I Will bè easily overwhelmed when trying to farm for snoutlings against 16-17 Pigs all’ at once. my “stable” maximum number is 11 Pigs with many play tricks in order to stabilize. Indeed, It is “funnier” than farming mindlessy against Easy Pigs that cannot touch you in the Caves’.

I tried yesterday to set up team with my two birds and a friend ally. Finally I reach the interest “plateau mastery” from which you are able tokill the evoker 10 times in less than 3 game rounds. with 3 birds I have many Birds/Ally combinati in that make me kill this 47200 Life point Monster ten 10!!!!

the results Will bè worst from a strict “snoutlings point of view”, but I make more mastery points in a “funnier” and more interattive way.

just my 2 cents
Maxx

[Jamairoqui]

@maxxmatt Sorry. Waht I wrote was confusing. I meant it is the 8th wave of Mouth Pool. The pigs for me are Level 15 (there is a 15 in their blue start when I tap on them for their stats). My birds are all L80, M74+ and it’s not a problem for me to deal with 15 opponents. They all do around 60 damage, so fifteen is about 900 total, spread among three on my team.

Why are the pigs in Mouth Pool for you so much harder than the pigs for me? That makes no sense. I thought they were as easy for everyone as they are for me. If they were L52, doing hundreds of damage each, there is no way could I get to 15 at a time and survive.

[Maxx_Matt]

@jamairoqui
ah, if I had know about angrybirdsnest before… I played all’ around the Island for mnths, then late, very late in the game, I started Caves’, friendship Gates and FBook Friends. my own game results, in the end, have been cumbersome, WITHOUT using any standard approach to the game discussed here during these yearS of ABE.

As usual, my approach to the game is not to reset and restart but optimize what I have acquired making treasure of past errors (I wasted free spins, free LCs, free shards, anything WITHOUT optimization, many items scratched away without thinking, and so in…)

This game situation brought me to approach for the first time the mouth pool, not as you, very soon in the game, but very very late. If i Remember well, I completed at least 5-6 Caves’ before thinking about opening friendship Gates… It brought me to face, now, Every time, Evoker with 47000life, Banshee with +5000life and Phantoms dealing me 500-600 each.

my birds are actually overpowered and I suppose to play the game in a good way, because I can still FARM the Pool the way I described at the beginning of this long Topic of my own.

for sure, I did things harder for me. slowing the grinding process and the games upgrades . anyway, I dissected the issue as well as I can, because I suspect many players can benefit from my hints, maybe living a similar game like mine, Every day.

I m L80, an average of M50 for each One of my birds classes, many of them elite, many ancient weapon sets maxxed out and I completed all’ the quests available for the games since months, aside reaching M80 ( my next goal )

I read all’ the major hints came from you all’ from this website and I smile at my own initial superficiality . now, like @burbman wrote many times , “method and patience until reaching the goal”