Mastery Points

[Sutekh137]

I am planning on NOT finishing out a whole bird, just finishing lots of different classes (except Matilda, where I am keeping her until last to take advantage of the insta-upgrade when she is all that is left).

@poptimus — Going your route (maxing out whole birds) will allow you to get more data points on the potential INCREASE in snoutling offers as the number of potential LC offers is statistically reduced.

I am more interested in seeing if I can make the number of snoutling offers go DOWN, by keeping the same number of LC offers in play while reducing the number of snoutling offers (by maxxing out classes, but no particular bird). I want a lot of data points, so I will wait to max out a whole bird until I can see if snoutling offers are reduced.

As far as I know, the current theory is that snoutling offers can never get below a certain average (@burbman might beg to differ), but they can increase, especially in the limit case where they become infinite because there are no longer enough LC offers to take up all three slots.

My current Mastery:

Red: 71/71/75/71/76/72
Chuck: 75/72/71/77/74/72
Matilda: 71/71/71/71/71/71
Bomb: 72/75/73/72/77/72
Blues: 71/72/75/75/71/72

Looks like 79 levels out of the 300 (26%). Or, 73 out of 240 (30%) of you leave Matilda out of it. Not too bad for 24 days in. Wish the current event were going better, though — I am using up all my FE and not missing s single (reasonable) stamina refresh and am still struggling to stay in two-star territory).

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Thanks,
sutekh137

[burbman]

@sutekh137 – I just created a quick bell curve of your data vs. mine, and was struck by just how pronounced the differences in our data sets are.

Where my data is very evenly spread between 4 through 7 offers per reset, with the mode moving between these four figures quite frequently, yours is very centrally focused on five offers, with 25% of the data points at five itself.

When charted, my data looks like a gently rolling hill, and yours more resembles a small hill with a spire on top of it. I guess this just goes to show how many data points it is going to take to truly get a picture of how the game works.

[bchild]

After the event, my main account has 2 classes maxed out Pirate and Tbird. Wizard is one dojo buy away. I can start collecting data with maxed out birds. My second account also has a maxed out Pirate.

[burbman]

Time for the four week checkup on the grind. As planned, I got the three star award in the TT event, and fortunately was on the winning team. I respun the wheel once and got the 5,000 all, chuck, and bomb award that I wanted. This has put me within about a week of maxing all bomb classes, and beginning my analysis of the dojo with a smaller pool of options. Currently I have achieved 155 of the 240 rank ups that I am working on, plus 22 for the blues for a total of 177/300, more than halfway, so I am on track to beat my ten week goal and get on with the rest of my life.

Red – 36/60
Chuck – 36/60
Matilda – 33/60
Bomb – 50/60
Blues – 22/60

[Anonymous]

@sutekh137 @burbman

I’m officially done collecting dojo data with all classes available, as I just got Stone Guard up to M80. Final stats after 115 visits:

– 83.2% (287 of 345) of initial offers were for Snoutlings. (Note that 30/36 = 83.3%, which is significant because there are 30 possible Snoutling offers, and 6 possible LC offers.)

– 57.5% (388 of 675) of replacement offers were for Snoutlings. (I do not have a similar interesting stat for this observation.)

– Average # of Snoutling offers per visit worked out to 5.87.

Once I get the rest of my target classes to M80, I’ll start collecting the same data again, but will also note which birds get Snoutling offers. I obviously will need a lot more data points in order for the aggregated bird distribution data to be statistically significant, so I’m not going to grind any more of my classes in the caves, at least for a while. I might even eschew events to slow down my mastery gathering (although if it seems like I have a chance to actually win an event, I don’t think I’ll pass up the opportunity to win some free LCs and/or shards). Will keep you posted.

[burbman]

@poptimus – by chance did you track the number of Snout vs. LC offers already on the board while tracking replacement offers?  The difference between your initial and replacement offers is too great to be purely based on that though.

Your average is very close to my own current 5.90 with 181 data points recorded, I think we are going to find that averages will fall between 5.75 and 6.0 for all players who are tracking this.

I have probably four or five days remaining before I can level all six bomb classes up to 80.  Working on bringing the last one up to 79 now, and I will bring them each up 1,000 points at a time until I can finally push all six across the line in the same day.  At that point I will grind to push a second family over the top so that I can gather data with only three families remaining, after which I will stop grinding altogether so that I can gather a significant number of data points under that scenario to compare with what we have gathered for a “pure” set.

[Anonymous]

@burbman

PM me your e-mail address, or e-mail me directly at gschenendorf[at]gmail.com and I’ll send you my spreadsheet. I did indeed track what offers were on the board at each stage of each visit.

I’m glad you’re leveling complete birds to get the data that @sutekh137 and I won’t.   =-]

[Maxx_Matt]

hi all’,

today is time for a good morale update of my own grinding/farming progress.

I played any 5 waves cave 9, sometimes mouth pool and events.

My spreadsheet data points started from 15/05 up to now.

I doesn’t own 2 classes (seadog, frosty savage) so they count as maxed out.

 

100 data points

AVG 5.897

AVG first offers on screen 2.521

Day count 22

Data points count 117

Mastery gained from Dojo 345000

My birds:

RED L45 L45 L49 L47 L56 L27

CHUCK L46 L47 L56 L48 L47 L39

MATILDA L46 L49 L46 L45 L45 L50

BOMB L44 L48 L50 L44 0 0

THEBLUES L44 L43 L45 L45 L45 L47

(Dojo unitary cost 94 snoutlings)

The gap between rate % number of first offers and total offers is almost parallel to axe X, so I can state It is constant, from my experience.

The birds with an higher mastery are my preferred class for farming in Caves’ and the ones used for events nor Island explorations. I didn’t refuse any Dojo offer and treat all’ my birds “equally” from this point of view.

Thanks for your cooperation

Maxx

[burbman]

I have completed my “pure” grind today, having leveled up all bomb classes to M80.  As far as I know, @sutekh137 is the only one tracking pure dojo visits who has not yet maxed out any classes.  @poptimus was nice enough to send me his data, and I now have combined statistics for His data along with Sutekh137 to date, and myself.

Individually, I had the best luck in the dojo, with an average of 5.91 snoutling offers per visit in 204 trips, Poptimus had the second best luck with an average of 5.87 offers in 115 trips, and Sutekh137 so far is averaging 5.75 offers in 166 trips.

Overall average for the three of us is currently at 5.85 offers in a total of 485 trips.  Statistical analysis reveals the following:

 

Data Points – 485

Average – 5.85 offers

Median – 5

Mode – 4

Max – 16

Min – 0

St Dev – 2.6623

St Error – .1210

On to the second phase of our tracking where I max out full families, and they max individual birds, while keeping all families in the mix.  Hopefully we can get enough data points to make this next part statistically valid.

 

 

[burbman]

Grind is now five weeks in.  Yesterday’s marathon session to finish off all six bomb classes has broken me for the time being.  I will be sticking to one class per day for a bit until I get my motivation back.  Current Status:

Red – All at M77

Chuck – All at M77

Matilda – 1 at M77, 5 at M76

Bomb – All at M80

Blues – 4 at M74, 2 at M75

Looking at my Blues – I am guessing that they will all be approx. M76 at the time the other four families have been maxed out.  Six classes times four mastery levels times ~11,500 points needed for each comes to 276,000, or 552 Dojo buys @ 70 snouts each, comes to a snoutling need of 38,640, well below what I had been guessing.  Maybe I will just go play all the recent levels in ABO to clear my mind…

[Sutekh137]

@poptimus

@burbman

Seadog is at mastery 79 for me, so just 11,500 more to go. Not sure how long I have on “pure” Dojo buys. Not sure why I thought I could grind my main classes up to 77 and think I’d still have a ton of time for pure buys. Once Seadog goes I will level up 2 classes per bird and so will have 12 maxxed out. That should be enough to see if average Dojo buys fall below my running average of “pure” buys.

Matilda, my laggard, is at 73/72/72/73/72/72, and that is with just Dojo buys (and maybe one “all birds” reward from a smaller event). So yeah, just a bit over a month, and pure Dojo buys alone level up a laggard more than you might think… In fact, with a focus on Dojo buys every day, one can gain ten levels of mastery for all birds, all classes, in the six months between mastery limit increases, I should think (fairly easily, in fact, and even without much Event success).

At this point, I think the following simple pieces of advice are close enough to optimal for most folks:

1. Devote all extra LC to refreshing the Dojo, not LC buys. Rate of snoutling buys appears to be round 5.8 on average. Close enough.
2. Leave one bird totally behind in terms of grinding. We know for sure that this will lead to the ability to buy a lot of mastery with snoutlings to finish off the last bird.
3. Level up a whole bird’s family of classes as quickly as you can.
4. Grind something like 9-5 or 9-9 and don’t worry about extending the fight (it’s just not that big of a deal, especially in terms of time-per-mastery). That will get you decent mastery and enough snoutlings to keep up with the Dojo, even considering the large amount of snoutlings needs to finish off your last bird once all the others are maxxed out.
5. Do as well as you can in Events, obviously, and don’t forget to use non-maxxed birds in those fights, too (as the battles themselves drop medals).

Number 3 is what we still need some data on in terms of upside/downside. We’ll see how much upside maxxing whole birds brings, and will find out if maxxing single classes without maxxing the whole bird brings snoutling-offer averages down. Once that is known, there isn’t much else to understand about mastering mastery!

Thanks,
sutekh137

[burbman]

@sutekh137 – I just looked at the numbers, and #3 may not be correct at all, depending on what we find in actual testing.  Even removing an entire family of birds reduces the percentage of available snoutling offers as opposed to LC.

All birds available – 83.33% snoutling offers 30/36

Four Families – 82.75% snoutling offers 24/29

Three Families – 81.81% snoutling offers 18/22

Two Families – 80% snoutling offers 12/15

The differences are slight, and probably will not manifest in real world testing, but in terms of having the highest likelihood of snoutling offers, I think it is probably best to evenly grind up all 24 classes of the four chosen bird families.  It will be your testing and not mine that truly proves or disproves this theory, as with having a smaller number of classes and five families remaining, you will have a significantly lower snoutling percentage as a whole, and you should see if it either does or does not have an effect on offers per visit.

[burbman]

@sutekh137 – Also note that during Dojo Sales where the 1,000 for all classes is offered for 50LC, this does provide more mastery than our calculated average would for using those same 50LC for resets, with the added benefit of not using up any Snoutling reserves, and it guarantees all classes increase in tandem.  This breaks even at the point at which seven birds have been maxed out, beyond that it is in the player’s benefit to use the reset option after the sale is over, as the sale locks one dojo position to the 50 for all option, and reduces snout percentages dramatically.

 

EDIT – Ignore this post my math was off

[DD]

@burbman You mean 75LC for 1,000 for all classes?

[Sutekh137]

@burbman

Good point about the “all” LC buy vs. resetting during sales. Yes, 50LC is a good price for an “all” if you have lots of “all”.  *smile*

Math check, though: 5 LC on  reset = 5.8 snoutling buys x 500 mastery each = 2900 mastery. Multiply that by 10 to get to 50 LC and you have 29,000 mastery.

1000 for all at 50 LC means 30,000 for the 50 LC (assuming all birds are non-max). That’s barely more than 29,000. Seven birds sounds like a lot to make that a break even.

As far as removing bird families vs just leveling everything up together — that’s why I think there is a minimum on snoutling buys. My theory is that eliminating LC offers might make fewer appear (raising snoutling average) but eliminating potential snoutling offers does not REDUCE chances of snoutling buys.

But maybe we will discover that no matter how many snouting or LC buy slots you remove from the potential pool, snoutling buys are always the same (until the end scenario, of course). Because otherwise, yeah, you are right — eliminating whole birds, while removing one of the LC buys, also removes six snoutling buys!

We shall see…

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Sutekh137]

@toolow

@burbman meant when there is a Dojo sale (I had to read that twice to see what he was talking about.  *smile*). The “all” buy is only 50 LC during some Dojo sales.

 

Thanks,

sutekh137

 

[DD]

@sutekh137 Ahhh, thanks for pointing out. Yes, they would indeed be good value when most of the classes is not maxed out (and when there are spare LC to burn :) ).

[Sutekh137]

@toolow

Yes, though as I mention above to burbman, spending 50LC on resets yields, on average, about 29,000 mastery. 50LC on an “all” buy, when all birds have room to grow, yields 30,000 mastery. It’s not a whole lot more. Just one maxxed bird means you are only getting the same amount of mastery as just using the LC on resets, unless I am missing something in my math…

Thanks,
sutekh137

[DD]

@sutekh137 Obviously one of them requires snoutings. But hey, one can get more than enough snoutings for Rovio to label him a cheat without actually having to cheat. :)

[Anonymous]

@sutekh137 @burbman

FYI, the early returns on my visits to the dojo with seven classes already maxed out, imply a much lower chance of Snout offers. In 24 such visits so far, I’m averaging 4.54 Snoutling offers per visit. Inital offers have been 81.9 Snoutling, which isn’t terribly much lower than the 83.3% I was seeing before maxing any classes, but the replacement offer rate is down from 57.5% to 45.9%.

[Sutekh137]

@toolow

Rovio has considered big-snoutling possessors to be cheaters? I have over 250,000 snoutlings and would have well over 350,000 if I had kept grinding Mouth Pool instead of Cave 9-9… Snoutlings are easy, and used to be even easier (e.g. Star Reef Castle).

If someone doesn’t have enough snoutlings then it must mean they don’t grind (or are still playing the game and just don’t have time for it).

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Sutekh137]

@poptimus

@burbman

I am eager to see what more than 24 data points brings — that’s not a lot. at 22 data points, my average was 4.91, for example.

Still of losing the snoutling slots really does cut down on offers, then a spread-out approach is really the only way to go. I was not expecting that.

Did you max out 7 classes all at once? Or are you keeping track of how many you have maxed for every Dojo visit (as in my spreadsheet?) If the latter, what is the running average of snoutling buys since you maxxed out at least one class?

Thanks,
sutekh137

[burbman]

@sutekh137 – I stand corrected on my math, and the difference is so slight, I think I would take the chance that I get lucky enough on resets to beat the odds.

 

@toolow – I was indeed referring to the occasional special offer in the Dojo, the 75LC option is simply a rip off, though not nearly as bad as the 15LC for a single class.

[burbman]

@sutekh137 – I had one dojo visit between having all classes available, and maxing out all of the bomb family.  For what its worth, I had three of his classes maxed, and received five offers.

I have had six visits since (way too low a figure to rely on) and am averaging 5.8 offers per visit.

[DD]

@sutekh137
My second account was L15 and I had about 134,000 snoutings. Rovio said that it’s not possible, accused me of modifying the game data, and promptly wiped my data. My main account was L70 with 630,000 snoutings, and they also said the same. So medium hard grinding for over 1.5 years is cheating apparently.