Bard vs Druid

[Ricecake]

I just bought Bard and I noticed that the damage and healing is inferior to Druid’s, this might as well be because of mastery level 2 against druid level 3, but at what level does bard starts to outheal/outdamage druid? is there a comparison chart between mastery level anywhere?

I am asking this since I bought Bard expecting to be more useful than Druid but it seems so far that I wasted my coins :v

Topic

[KillerKea]

Visit https://www.angrybirdsnest.com/angry-birds-epic-bird-classes-guide/ for a detailed description about each headset. The Bard does half as much healing, but small amounts of healing continues for the next 2 rounds. The Bard does more damage in the initial round, but over all the Druid does more damage if you count additional rounds.

Earlier posts I indicated that the Bard is basically a worthless character since 2 updates ago they nerfed the Nightmare Set and I think the Bard is only useful with the Nightmare set because other characters can do a lot more damage or stun longer.

[Ricecake]

dang

[wolkenwand]

I always use bard, if the enemy can dodge then i switch to druid.

[Zeke Kaiser]

Bard actually does more overall healing.

Druid does 20 health on target, and 10 on others. For an average of 13.3 health per bird.

Bard does 10 health on all birds with an additional 5 health per turn for 3 turns. This comes out to 15 health per bird. (You shouldn’t forget to add it to the cures.)

Also, if you decide to attack with Bard, some healing still remains while if you attack with Druid, there is no residual healing. Even if you spam cure every turn, Bard will produce more overall healing than Druid. The only advantage Druid has is it is slightly targeted if you wanted to give preferential cures.

(Note: It says heals for 10 health, etc. That means it heals for 10% of Matilda’s health.)

As for damage:
Bard = 160 Damage
Druid = 35 Damage +100/turn for 3

If you are attacking every turn, Bard is stronger. Less than that, Druid wins. Assuming they aren’t immune to negative effects. If you have the scythe set, Bard will outdo Druid easily. (Even post nerf, it will enough damage to outdo Druid unless your attack is outrageously high.)

tl;dr
In my opinion, Bard>Druid

On an unrelated note, Rainbird (if you have a +HP items) will outdo every Matilda class for healing unless you have the Honey set. A little less durable, but higher average cures, a harmful effect remover, and one of the strongest attacking classes for Chuck.

[Zeke Kaiser]

As for the Nightmare set nerf:

Yeah, it was nerfed, but a 23% chance at stun is nothing to sneeze at. And while the damage was nerfed, it still happens often enough to be useful.

Although, Bard with the Sweet set will produce more average damage and have stronger cures. But if you want stuns:

Blues with Chili = 100%
Bard with Scythe = 23%
Samurai with Hammer = 22.1% (1-.92^3)
Bard with Stun weapon = 20%
Bard without stun weapon = 15%
Samurai with regular stun weapon = 14.2% (1-.95^3)
Matilda/Red non-Bard/Samurai with Scythe/Hammer = 8%
Matilda/Red non-Bard/Samurai with regular stun weapon = 5%

No other birds can stun.
Note: Hammer set stun lasts 2 turns.

[Zeke Kaiser]

This is something I had made the other day when I was bored.
It is based on L33M5 stats with the Nightmare/Sweet sets.

http://postimg.org/image/hpny48bwr/

[KillerKea]

Zeke – Your math is severely flawed and you listed the Druid’s damage incorrectly. To keep things simple I’ll use the numbers from the link I mentioned earlier to show that the Druid does both more damage and more healing than the Bard. Lets use a 4 round example where the Bard heals once and attacks 3 times while the Druid attacks twice and heals twice.

Bard attack = 160 dam
Bard healing = 3 * (10 + 5 + 5 + 5) = 75
After 4 rounds the Bard does 480 damage and 75 in healing

Druid attack = 35 + 3 * 100 = 335
Druid healing = 20 + 10 + 10 = 40
After 4 rounds the Druid has done 670 damage and 80 healing

Both numbers are higher than the Bard’s numbers. One major difference is that when you need healing you don’t want to heal tiny amounts because your characters will die. Also the Bard’s healing is also far less effective since you can’t concentrate a heavier dose of healing on the character that needs it.

The Bard has the advantage of being able to stun, but a Samurai with the Grand Slam set is far superior than a Bard with the Nightmare set since the Samurai will stun for 2 rounds instead of 1 and his chance to stun is almost the same. Many of Bomb’s and Blues’ classes can do more damage than the Bard. That is why I don’t rate the Bard very highly because there are so many better characters to use.

Like I’ve been saying before the Nightmare nerf the Bard was a decent character to use, but after the nerf there is little reason to use her and the math backs me up on that statement. The nerf to the Nightmare set reduced the stun damage from over 800 (880 for a level 33 mastery level 5 with level 33 set) to only 200 which is more than a 75% reduction. Even if you factor the additional 200 damage the Bard still does less damage than the Druid.

[Zeke Kaiser]

My numbers are based on pure attacking or pure healing. Yeah, you can pick scenarios where one will beat the other. I suppose Druid was based on a single target which is slightly biased. Too sleepy to fix right now; may fix it later.

Druid is significantly less effective attacking if there is a single target, or immune to negative effects. Bard cannot focus heals.

If Bard skips a turn, there is still residual healing. If Druid skips, there is not.
As a healer, Bard heals more.

Druid advantage in attacking is if there are multiple targets, or intermittent attacking. Bards advantage in healing is anytime you don’t need to focus it on one bird. (I like Paladin, so it tends to even out.)

Your same scenario, but with a single target: (H=Heal A=Attack)
Bard 3A1H (HAAA) = 480 damage 75 healing
Druid 2A2H (AAHH/AHAH/AHHA) = 370 damage 80 healing

For comparison sake:
Bard 2A2H (HHAA/HAHA/HAAH) = 320 damage 105 healing (160*2)d (30*2+15*3)h
*Note how if Bard heals a second time, the healing is more than Druid in the same situation for only slightly less damage.
Druid 3A1H (AAAH/AAHA/AHAA) = 505 damage 40 healing (35*3+100*4)d (40)h
*Admittedly slightly more damage than Bard, but large drop in healing.

For fun:
Bard 4A (AAAA) = 640 damage (160*4)
Druid 4A (AAAA) = 540 damage (35*4+100*4)

Bard 4H (HHHH) = 165 healing (30*4+15*3)
Druid 4H (HHHH) = 160 healing (40*4)

I suppose that I will concede that Druid, in most situations, is better at attacking due to the DoT nature of their attack. However, I maintain my stance that Bard is the better healer.

Edited when cut off of for moves are for clarity.

[Zeke Kaiser]

Comparing Bard to Blue/Bomb damage is silly.

If you are going for damage, then Matilda is a poor choice regardless of class. If you are going for healing, Blue/Bomb is not what you want either.

If I am bringing Matilda (rare), I am using her as a healer, and Bard can do the most healing per turn.

[KillerKea]

The Bard’s healing should be *3 not *4 because it only lasts 3 rounds. If you want to do more damage you should use almost any of bomb’s or blues classes instead of the Bard. I’ll use my level 33 mastery level 5 characters as an example. My Bard does 704 with the level 33 Doom and level 33 Demise. Both my Bomb and my Blues classes have base damages of 700 which is about the same amount of damage the Bard does, but overall they both do a lot more damage. Rogues do 210 + 630 * 3 (Druid does 154 + 3 * 440). My Spies do 595 and 245 to all other enemies. My Spies are equipped with a level 33 BEEP attack set which wasn’t nerfed. That gives this character a 45% chance to do an extra 525 damage to all enemies on screen. The robot also has the chain attack feature which does an extra 50% damage to another enemy 45% of the time. Just imagine how much extra damages blues could do if there was a headset with 3 attacks. There is the Marksmen with 2 attacks and they are quite devastating when used properly. Spies can also heal 15% of damage caused so they can do quite a bit of healing.

If you like using the Bard, go ahead and use her. I’m just saying there is a better character to use for almost every situation and the math will back me up on that. Obviously the Druid isn’t a good choice when fighting a single opponent, but most waves are not a single opponent. For those that are you probably want the Paladin and Princess for healing because the Bard simply won’t do enough healing when you are fighting most of the cave bosses.

[Anonymous]

I agree with @killerkea. Bard just isn’t that great in my book. Honestly I love “Playing” with her mixed with Marksmen and Guardian in random battles because I think they are fun to use but Bard is just not overall that useful. However I think Druid is great ( I use her EVERY battle ) because not only is her healing instant ( Which is useful for me ) but normally I get one attack before the pigs start attacking me. So when this happens I use her healing because I like my birds at full health. Meaning I need to heal every round and the pigs are getting attacked by Thorny Vine while my birds are at full. This is why I use Druid so much. She’s great! Not only that but Bard can’t attack ninjas while Druid can attack ninjas and some lower level knights. So in some cases she can attack ANY pig! Another reason why I use her so much!

[KillerKea]

Why do you think it is silly to compare the Bard with Blues or Bomb?

For every fight some birds will be better to use than others. There are many ways to win a battle and although the Bard isn’t as efficient as other characters it will work. When fighting enemies that have immunity or iron clad you obviously don’t want to use the Druid. The Bard’s stun also won’t work against enemies with immunity.

In most cases the Druid is clearly a better choice than the Bard because it does more damage and more healing. If the fight only lasts one round, you don’t need a healer. Even if you have a short 2 round fight against 2 or more enemies the Druid still does more damage and more healing. The Druid will do 35+100+100=235 to one enemy and 135 damage to a second enemy for a total of 370. The Bard only does 160*2=320. If you just did healing for both rounds the Druid heals 80 while the Bard only heals 60. I already demonstrated above that in a 4 round or longer fight against multiple enemies the Druid does more damage and healing. So for almost any length fight the Druid does more damage and more healing except when you are fighting a single boss.

If you are fighting a single boss with 10,000+ health, then other groups like the sea dog, pirate, or captain, combined with Red and Chuck or marksmen combined with the Samurai or Canoneer with Chuck or Princess will do massive damage and finish the fight a lot faster.

[Zeke Kaiser]

The reason why I say it is silly to compare Bard to Blues/Bomb:
The primary reason to bring Matilda is due to healing, not damage. Blues/Bomb obviously do more. They are unable to heal though. (Spies healing is single target, and while decent, an actual healer is more effective.) Basically, Matilda is not a damage dealer. That is not the reason to bring her. Comparing a healer to a damage dealer is silly because if they don’t need to heal, then there is no reason to bring them.

What I am saying is, that as a healer, Bard heals more than Druid. (Looking back, I see what you are talking about when I used *4 rather than *3. The reason 4 is used is because the regen effect is reapplied when the healing move is used again. I was drawing the cut off at the start of the next round.)

I suppose if we just want to count the turn that the heal is applied:
Turn | Bard | Druid
1 | +30=30 | +40=40
2 | +45=75 | +40=80
3 | +45=120 | +40=120
4 | +45=165 | +40=160
5 | +45=205 | +40=200
6 | +45=250 | +40=240
etc.

The reason why Bard goes from 30 to 45 is the healing effect from the previous turn. If either of them stops healing to attack, the favor goes to Bard. If the fight is less than three turns, then Druid can heal more for the first two rounds of healing, but Bard slowly takes the lead.

The only fights that need healing are big wave battles and boss fights. Both of those are long, and the short term healing advantage of Druid is lost. And if the boss attacks single targets, Princess will win anyway.

But long story short, Bard will do more healing over time, not Druid.

[KillerKea]

Most of the time your characters are not taking damage evenly and if they are, then the Cleric is a better healer than the Bard in those situations. Since the Cleric’s Healing Shield heals 15% of all damage taken she will heal 45% of all damage taken when the enemy has a group attack. The Bard can slowly heal more over time, but if you want to 3 star a level she probably won’t be able to do enough healing to get all your characters to full health.

My Cleric will heal 102 health to all birds with every attack. My Bard only heals 160 + 80 per turn for the next 3 turns so the Cleric’s Healing Shield combined with its Healing Strike can do more healing than the Bard. The Priestess has the potential to do the most healing when combined with another character like Rainbird, but she isn’t as easy to use.

[JoshSP1985]

They’re polar opposites of each other if you think about it

Druid = upfront aoe healing with staggered damage
Bard = upfront damage with staggered aoe healing healing