AB 2 Glitches and Bugs

[Rovio_Bankler]

@circlerev Thanks! I’ll show it to a level designer.

[kedik22]

@bankler

Hi, good of you to make an appearance.

I also play AB Friends.
Therefore my comments are directed at both games.

It is astonishing the level of frustration and angriness gamers experience AND manifest in these forums, a direct consequence of your passiveness and lack of success at addressing and correcting problem issues.

The mess you are responsible for regarding rigged arenas, cheaters, hackers, bugs and glitches is mind-blowing!!!

World class end European firms do not conduct business this way.
It is time for Rovio (not you, you are only the messenger) to come clean, provide straight answers and NOT behave like obscure politicians.

Regards.

[MicroMax]

Aren´t you being a bit harsh @kedik22? After all Rovio is only acting like 99% of companies do. Otoh @bankler – a member of the AB2 dev team – is in direct contact with users, something 99% of companies will (90% probably have strict rules against) never do. My respect to @bankler even though I have issues with AB2 and have effectively stopped playing it several months ago in favor of older AB-games. Wish other teams in Rovio had there own ‘banklers’.

[kedik22]

@micromax

Hi.
I have tremendous respect for @bankler and he is not to blame.
Rovio is.
And my parents always taught me not to leave a mess behind.
AB2 was a beautiful concept, until it turned out to be money grabbing, cheating and unfair enterprise.
I am just sad…

[MicroMax]

Hi @kedik22,
I am certainly agreeing that Rovio has a lot of room for improvement. Probably all of us wish that Rovio could be a better company in a number ways and try to push them towards improvements whenever possible.

[kedik22]

@micromax

Hi again.
If room for improvement was all it took, we would be having a discussion of a more enjoyable nature.
But Rovio has chosen a different path.

[Rovio_Bankler]

@micromax Thank you for your kind words and appreciation. That really means a lot to me.

@kedik22 I feel your frustration. Unfortunately there is little I can do about some of the concepts in the game related to monetization, ads and such. It’s just not my field.

However, I would like to comment on your claim that the arena would be rigged. I can assure you that we do not rig the arena. We never fiddle around with a player’s score, adjusting the end score during a run to put it just above you own score, or any other way of cheating you might imagine we do. It’s just not true.

We do matchmaking, which might give you a real challenge from time to time. But we never change people’s recorded scores.

The only time you could be playing against a result not recorded by a real player would be the first few minutes after a new arena level has been released. Then (since no real player has played it yet) you’re playing against my fellow co-worker, but his score is really embarrassingly low. So that can rather be seen as a “free win”. ;)

[kedik22]

@bankler

Hello.
Thank you for taking the time to get back to us.
It really means a lot, given the level of frustration you mention.
What I tried to convey is the feeling gamers have towards Rovio and to what the games have become.
As for yourself, we very much appreciate what you are doing.
Lots of patience and a great attitude, an awesome job!
Don´t be a stranger…
Kind regards.

[Sutekh137]

@bankler

Just saw new levels open up *sigh* and wanted to reiterate what isn’t really a bug or glitch but is what I see as a large issue: Please stop releasing new levels every two weeks.

I thought I was alone in my desire for LESS content, but have seen several other players make the same comments recently. Additionally, there are lots of players who admit they don’t even bother with the campaign levels and are growing bored of the Arena (or are too daunted by FIVE HUNDRED levels to even start). Here’re the problems with all these new levels churning out so fast:

— It is simply too much to keep up with. If someone wants to be competitive in the Arena, 20 new levels every 14 days is a LOT. We’re fatigued. Wouldn’t you be? I’m a pretty good player and it still usually takes me close to a week to find the time (and motivation) to tackle 20 new levels. That means I play for a week and then get just one week off to concentrate on the Arena or simply take a break. No other game I have ever played grinds out such a treadmill of a game (though I don’t doubt they are out there).
— The levels are so, so, so same-y. There’s nothing new here. No new spells, no new birds, and rarely is there a new dynamic (green slime, portals, water…). Some entire sets of forty levels have simply been re-hashes of previous cities, in fact. If you aren’t going to create something new, why keep churning out garbage? We can tell that a computer somewhere is designing these levels, and the levels come off as soulless and random. Contrast that with MEANINGFUL content you guys brought to subsequent releases of AB, Rio, and Space. I WANTED to tackle those new levels because each one was FUN.
— Daunting to new players. Has any new player actually come to Rovio and said, “Yeah, I’d like to play Angry Birds 2, but there’s just not very much content, so I’ll pass.” Has any existing player said “More new levels please, even if they are just more of the same!”. I haven’t seen a single plea on these boards for more levels or more difficulty. What I HAVE seen are pleas to SLOW DOWN the releases and make them more distinct/fun.

The bottom line is that I grimace every time I see new levels now (and I’ve been grimacing since last November). Do you really want hard-core, loyal players grimacing at your game? I either play a Rovio game to completion or I uninstall it. There’s nothing in between because there is very little joy to each specific level. Each one is the same as the last, and all I wonder is whether or not I’ll have to buy a continuation to make it through some monstrous six-roomer.

This isn’t fun. Please, please tell whoever you can at Rovio to knock this off. Or, at least take a poll from users on whether or not releases are too fast, too slow, or just right. And then take the results to heart.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[MVNLA2]

@bankler @sutekh137 — I agree somewhat with sutekh137, but for different reasons. I would much rather see Rovio concentrate on fixing known bugs and getting rid of cheaters. I don’t grimace when I see new levels, but I no longer have the same enthusiasm. I see them as one of the remaining ways to get blue presents, and the whole subject of blue and red presents irritates me whenever I think about it.
Also, I don’t think sutekh137 is correct about the new levels being designed by computers, and those new scuba pigs are diabolical.

[Sutekh137]

@mvnla2

@bankler

OK, maybe not fully computerized, but there is no way someone at Rovio is painstakingly creating levels the same way they did for, say, the original AB. Just do the math:

— 500 AB2 levels.
— Estimate an average of 4 rooms per level (that’s probably low, but early levels have fewer rooms).
— That equals 2000 “rooms”, or what would be equivalent to a single level in AB.
— The original AB has a total of 573 levels, by my count. And let’s not forget how cool some of that game play was. Remember Red’s Mighty Feathers, levels where the game play was totally novel and different? Or the introduction of new birds like Short Fuse?

So, 2000 rooms vs 573 levels. AB was released in December of 2009 and had several enhancements over the next 3-4 years. Even a five-year release. AB2 was released just last July — 9 months ago. Even if we said the bulk of AB’s levels were released on 3 years to make level release look denser, that means about 600 levels in 36 months, or roughly 17 levels per month.

AB2 has released, essentially, 2000 levels in 9 months, or 222 levels per month. That’s THIRTEEN TIMES as much content in terms of churning a single frame of play.

And let’s not forget the re-use of structures. Eiffels, squat pyramids, standard towers, balloon suspensions — we see a LOT of the same constructs over and over again in AB2. Staff at Rovio is churning out levels more than ten times as quickly as they did with AB1, and it shows — the levels are soulless and samey. Snorkler pigs are diabolical? I guess, a bit (I’m through seven new levels in just two hours — they ain’t that tough). But that’s been the theme of AB2 this whole time, hasn’t it? Level design isn’t necessarily more clever or interesting, it’s random and usually more difficult (even though we have aiming help with the dotted arcs).

Your point about presents is a good one, but it sort of solidifies my point: we end up needing/wanting to play the game for all kinds of reasons that differ wholesale from why we played AB. We played AB because it was FUN. We play AB2 to grind out completions, stars, and gifts just so we can…go grind out some more when yet another 20 levels (80+ rooms!) are churned out just 14-20 days later. This is a treadmill, not a delightful run in the park.

A lot of folks say, “duh, it’s all part of the money grab”, but I see it more as a misdirected, desperate attempt to recapture the magic of the original AB. That’s where I am coming from; trying to turn that misdirection into fun game-play focus. Because if someone at Rovio is designing these new levels WITHOUT using a computer, they should be fired. These new levels have almost zero creativity to them. Case in point? The first new Boss level (486) once again requires you knock the Boss in the water, clear out what is behind him, then pop him out to send him off the right side of the screen. This is the fourth or fifth boss fight to require that sort of tactic. Zero creativity.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[ger_ych]

@sutekh137

@bankler

I wholeheartedly agree with regards to releasing every two weeks. I wasn’t looking forward to it actually. I was hoping Rovio would give us a break for once. Many are already suffering AB2 burnout…

[Sutekh137]

@mouldingo

@bankler

I am reminded of when Angry Birds Space released the Brass Hogs/Mirror levels. I thought to myself, “Crap, that’s a TON of new stuff to get through!” And then I proceeded to use the literal months it took to get through it all. It was WONDERFUL.

Of course, it didn’t even work on my tablet at first. But the next update fixed the Intel chipset issue and I started grinding daily objectives and chipping away at all the new levels. Heck, I even earned enough Space Eagles to feather all the original levels. Couldn’t get enough, and was sad when it was done.

THAT’S game-play.

The only other gave I’ve ever played all the way over again? Bad Piggies. My tablet died and Bad Piggies was the only game for which the backup didn’t restore properly. I let it sit a while and then said, “What the heck” and I did it all again, including race levels and sandbox levels. LOVED IT. Some things were frustrating to repeat, sure, but it’s fun to rise to the challenge when the game-play is there.

If I ever lost my progress on AB2 I know exactly what I would do — obliterate the game from my tablet and never install it again. That would be an extremely easy call. And that’s the problem with AB2 as compared to almost all other Rovio offerings. Heck, I’d even replay Stella if I lost my save game. Stella was twice the game AB2 is. Got axed. Guess it wasn’t generating enough impressions since it didn’t have the name recognition.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Rovio_Bankler]

@sutekh137
We don’t force you to play the levels right away when they get out, do we? :) Save some for a vacation. Seriously though, sure, I see your point. It’d be possible for us to hold off a while, and then add more mechanics than the usual 1-2 new ones we put in every chapter today. A steady and continuous delivery of new levels is however something that makes many of our players coming back to the game on a regular basis (obviously we measure this), and this is really important for us. However, nothing is black and white here. It’s something we need to balance, and I’ll make sure to bring the topic up for consideration.

Regarding the level generation: Some rooms are completely hand-crafted, like the boss rooms, tutorial levels, and some other ones. For other levels, they are prepared in forms of the sequence of what terrain goes into each room, what types and difficulty of towers and pigs being allowed to spawn and many other settings. This is all manually setup and balanced by our level designers. Also, the 500+ different towers have been put together by hand. When a level starts, there is some randomization being done to what exact towers and pigs are being put into each room in the level (restricted by the limits and specifications that the level designers have decided for that level).

This explanation is intended solely “for your information”, how it works technically, not as a standpoint if “many levels” through the use of generation is better or worse than few handcrafted levels. There are benefits and drawbacks to both approaches.

[Dwhite]

Thanks as always for your continued consideration. I believe your motives are good and you look out for us players. Right now I’m drawing opponents in the arena with 5 spell cards a little over 80% of the time (diamond league). Is this normal? They are normally low rank but impossible to beat. Are these legit players? Can anything be done about it? I know I can back out and find a new opponent but that is very time consuming and I’ve lost my free match dozens of times. Plus I believe cherry picking my opponents is a form of cheating in itself. Again, thanks.

[Sutekh137]

@bankler

Thanks for the explanation on level design. I’ve no doubt a lot has gone into it, but then it should tell you something when veteran players talk about how samey the levels ultimately are. All the balance and generated structures in the world don’t amount to much if it still feels “meh” at the end of the day. Like I said: do a poll and see what players think about the new content rolling out (and its volume). Also a poll on how excited new levels make them.

I am not sure what you mean by 1-2 new dynamics in each chapter… Examples: Ham Francisco was basically a harder rehash of Pigsyland with explodey-pig thrown in (that’s not much of a new mechanic). And, as someone else observed somewhere on this forum, Pig Bay is 60 levels (instead of the standard 40), and the only new mechanic was water, something not all that new for many Angry Birds players. Sixty levels is about 300 rooms. Three hundred rooms to slog through without much differentiation to them. Even the boss levels were almost all carbon copies of each other: get the boss in the water, clear a path, then boot him out. Prior boss levels have been far more engaging.

I’m curious as to how you know _why_ players are being retained by AB2? Are they in and watching ads because of the treasure chests? The Arena? Several folks on this board have said they either don’t even play the campaign levels or are far behind. So what makes Rovio think it is the campaign level additions that bring folks back every day? Do you guys even keep track of campaign level play? I thought those completions were just stored locally (if not, could you please save all game progress in the cloud so we don’t have to worry about manual backups?).

Yes, I could just take a vacation. And when I come back, I’d have a hundred levels to slog through. That would mean an immediate uninstall. Because I think you are missing my point: it’s not the volume of content so much as how uninspired it is. It’s just a grind in order to make folks buy more gems. Clear as day. Like I said in a previous post, Angry Birds Space was updated with Brass Hogs and Mirror Worlds, and that meant HUNDREDS of new levels — it basically doubled the size of the game! Did I complain? Not at all. I got after it and loved every minute of it. To reverse an old relationship adage, “It’s not me, it’s you.” *smile*

Thanks,
sutekh137

[Rovio_Bankler]

Will try to answer your questions:

Regarding new mechanics, it’s easy to underestimate the work that goes into adding features. For instance, the water is not a small feature. You have seen similar things before (in earlier AB-games), but this is another game, built in another engine. Also, don’t forget that you are a seasoned AB-player who have played several other AB-games. Many of the AB2-players have never before played an Angry Birds game. Other mechanics I refer to are bumpers, geysers, slime and ice slides, the new pigs and so on. I still see your point though, we could do more to increase the variety.

Regarding the campaign. Yes we track player behavior in that part of the game as well. And your progress is synched to the cloud. To use multiple devices and keep the progress synched, you need to use Facebook.

[Sutekh137]

@bankler

Thanks for the response.

I didn’t assume all that many AB2 players are brand new to the franchise. I’d be curious to know what percentage. I’d have thought one third, at most…

I don’t use Facebook and won’t ever do that. Don’t need Facebook to save progress in Epic, Go!, or the original AB, so no reason to start now. I guess I’ll just keep doing my own backups.

Thanks,
sutekh137

[ABeggerToo]

@bankler I was just promoted to level 50 after gathering the 250 stars required. I received a prize and am requested to tap to open the gift. When I do this the game just crashes. I am now unable to play at all. I will send a note to Rovio. I recognize you are not tech-support, but as you seem to be monitoring a lot of issues I am wondering if you have encountered this before and can direct me to a fix. iPad restart didn’t work. Thanks for your reply.

AB2 crashes.jpg

[Dwhite]

Same thing happened to me last week. I uninstalled the game and installed it back. I didn’t lose anything. Hope this helps. Just sharing my experience.

[ABeggerToo]

Thanks @dwhite40704 that did the trick. After extensive playing I was concerned about loosing progress, despite seeing this solution as the fix suggested for problems. I have no idea what my present was as this had disappeared, but that was the only thing that changed so no great loss. Problem solved @bankler.

[Dwhite]

Glad it worked. I too, have played extensively and was afraid that I would lose all my progress. Total relief when I didn’t!!!!

[Aeshna]

2 new bugs to report!

Was given a ME as returned card during play. My opponent was greyed out. I played the ME and both mine and my opponents destructor meters increased!

Second bug I have seen twice now. Opponent in arena at battle screen is playing eight cards (7 bird and duck card). As I’m tired of coming out and logging back in to find a seven card player, I decide to play on. On first screen, they are only showing seven cards, so where’s their eighth card gone?

[LessTisha]

Disregard most recent message. Once I completed level 1, everything came back – levels, stars, jewels, except for one thing – 2 stars on Level 277 instead of 3. I had/have 3 stars on all levels through 497.

[LessTisha]

Based on the recommendations here, I uninstalled AB2 (Android) and reinstalled. The 2088 jewels in my account disappeared. Any idea who I contact at Rovio to get this fixed? Thank you.